Large Scale Central

Spine Car Project

Modeling Technical Modeling
#1

As some of you may know, I have been toying with the idea of creating a set of Spine Cars to compliment the existing Intermodal equipment. I have the 3-D model about 90% complete, based upon an HO spine car.

To print the entire car via some place like Shapeways is going to be too costly, so I am looking for good ideas on how to build this car for a reasonable cost.

Here is some eye candy to prove to you guys that I am building the digital model. I will share the AutoCAD file if someone wants to use it to improve the model.

Yes, I know the trucks I am using are only a measurement representation!

Thanks for the ideas!

#2

very nice! i am wishful that someone is going to do a frontrunner for those of us with smaller pikes

#3

Brian, I guess you will have to break the cars down into assemblies. In other words, print your own spine car kits.

Looks like you are doing well with the design.

#4

Brian, I’m liking yours better then mine

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/1974988_1479586715603034_818045554_n.jpg)

Basically the only way to print them using the Makerbot2 that I’m using to print them would be to break each piece down to fit on the print area

(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1901787_1479586728936366_1955237471_n.jpg)

for the main structure i’d glue the 3 parts together, I added a tube opening for metal rod to 1. strengthen the base, 2a add weight, 2b add lower center of gravity weight

the other peeces would also be done in sections

(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1538895_1479586725603033_964603049_n.jpg)

#5

My car is based upon the Athearn Impac cars. I measured the Athearn car and put it into CAD. I have a few minor adjustments to finish, unless someone has a rollerbearing truck that will ride on scale 28" wheels.

This car is also based on using Kadee 830 pockets and couplers. I left them black for the sake of this post.

Rooster suggested making the main spine out of wood, and adding printed details to it. This made me think about having a plastic cutting house make the spine out of ABS, and gluing all the fancy parts to it. (Sills, trailer platforms, Hitch Stand, end beams, Brake components, etc)

Mark, what software are you using? And whose truck are you modelling? What is the print quality you are getting with eh Makerbot II ?

#6

this project car is actually from Sketch Up based on one of the uploaded shareware files. right now i’m printing using PLA plastic, haven’t tried using the Makerbot Replicator 2x with ABS yet

you can see pics of PLA in my Mine cart build here

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/21120/mine-car-3d-printed

I drew up and plan on printing my bogies tomorrow

(http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/98/67/98/aa/b5/truck_frame_support_preview_featured.jpg)

edit update, the sketchup file has some blemishes that the printer went crazy on, but i saw where I need to correct my original drawing

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10155487_1480063558888683_2629545_n.jpg)

These are done on the PLA Makerbot, cost was like $80c, print quality was set to fast, the lowest setting btw

(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1017728_1478405675721138_866694049_n.jpg)

#7

The spine cars look to have a lot of repeatable parts from one car to another. So why not print off the parts needed for one car, and then cast the rest?

#8

One thing to consider is that the 5-packs are on the way out, at least on the east coast. Both these spines and the well car 5-packs have been determined to lose efficiency as far as spotting cars on intermodal ramps. If you have 4-cars of space but a 5-pack, you have to set the entire 5-pack over to the next track, wasting that open space.

Almost all cars are being modified to 3-packs.

As far as the design itself, I do see one thing missing. None of the platforms appear to carry the arms needed for the container locks. This is something that should be added for maximum car utility, though I do realize not all the cars were so equipped.

Also, (keeping in mind, I fully acknowledge that 3D drawing is NOT a skill I claim to have) I would design the car platforms such that ONLY the platform is included in the print. Leave off the hitch, the end platforms and the airbrake gear. If each spine is designed so that any one can be easily modified into the end platform, only one spine design would be needed. All the other stuff would be added after the fact by detailers.

If I had more time right now, I would gladly get involved in a discussion, unfortunately I got to shoot out the door for a Helper.

Please keep us informed, I am VERY interested in this project.

Oh, by the way, as far as the trucks, look to USA… what about the trucks needed for the autoracks? Those should be smaller wheelsets and being diecast would put the car’s weight where it is needed. Also, the LGB Modern or the USA trucks under the gundersons would be able to use the bachmann field wheels, which are significantly smaller than normal.

#9

I need to back up and start with my engineering process as to why I chose these cars.

These cars are based upon the second generation “Fuel-Foilers”, which predate the container era. The prototypes are intended to carry 40’ and 45’ trailers, only. The prototype ran on 28" wheels. The original cars came in 5 and 10 unit cars. In our modelling world, there is no reason that 3-unit cars are impossible.

This model is well suited for my smaller layout. I run 12’ Diameter track. I intend to run only 3-unit cars, but any number can be run. I doubt I can get 10 units and 5 well cars to fit on my mainline without the lcoos chasing the FRED. Also, I have a set of Athearn HO models that I have used as reference. That makes the math real easy.

J.D.: What you speak of is an all-purpose spine car. It is much more flexible, and usually seen in 3-packs today. My reason for not starting there is simple; I cannot find a short version in HO to use as reference. I am thinking about asking BLMA if they are willing to provide some good information on their HO version for use as reference for making a 53’ container version.

The USA Trains Die Cast tgruck has a significantly raised bolster that will raise this car very high above the rail, and will change the appearance of the car. Besides, when I started this project, Aristo was still in business. The wheels on the Autoracks are typical G-Scale undersize, about 33".

So, from here, I want to get these three units (A-end car, B-end Car, Middle car) in a state that I can call them close enough. I have an interference on the center articulations because of using 33" stock wheels. Then, I need to get designing on some 40’ and 45’ trailers to ride on these things.

My intention is to make the design availble for the three units and trailers, whether here or a print house. Printing these cars complete via Shapeways is crazy expensive, so I plan to make just the significantly complicated parts on a 3-D printer. The end spines are different than the middle spines, because of the coupler pocket details. It would be difficult to make a common spine that would cover both types. However, he major details are common between spines.

#10

Brian, if you can make the trailer parts available you might have a market there. The tandems and relevant details, and then the modeler could build his own freight box to go with them

#11

Mark, would designing in an interlocking joint in the middle of the spine make it easier to do the glue-up process?

#12

funny you say that now, just spent the last hour working on my spine project, inserting channels for metal supports that will line up the frame during assembly. Nixed the old design as the way it was would have used a ton of filler (which is a lot of time) got the pieces down from 3 hours a piece x 3 pieces to 3 hours total. Which is why I think Rooster sugested the wood piece to you.

that model you have now is “the purty” drawing, you will have to rip that one apart to figure how to get it to actually build now

the middle piece in this picture went from this

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1901787_1479586728936366_1955237471_n.jpg)

to this

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10168007_1480130602215312_476588305_n.jpg)

#13

I am presently in the middle of re-designing this car to be easier to build. I have it working nicely with Stock wheelsets, now, but the overall car is riding about 3/16" higher. The main spine need not be printed but cut out of 5/8" this stock. Top and bottom flanges of the spine can be cut from .030" styrene. The Brake parts and articulations will still need to be 3-D printed, and I think I will make those pieces available somewhere.

The trailer wheel platforms are next on my list of things to make easy to build.

Pics of the adjusted car will be coming soon!

#14

Brian, do keep this project updated please. Every time I go to ECLSTS, I ask Charlie about adding spines to the lineup. And when Aristo mentioned adding intermodal cars to their catalog, I pressured Lewis to forgo another well design and consider spines as well.

#15

This project has been moving very slowly lately. I have found myself very busy with work, and it is spring time, so all the gardening and spring time work needs done. I hope to get back to finishing this project up soon!

#16

Brian, I like the progress you have made since you started. Keep going.