Large Scale Central

Solar Powered Battery-Car

Prototypes
#1

Hello everyone, This is a prototype of our first solar powered battery-car. There are 10 cells that charge at 4 volts each at a rating of .50 mills, times that by 10 = 40V @ 500 milliamps. We added a small voltage regulator which brings down the 40 volts to 24 volt to charge the 18V 2000millimap AA Nimh battery-pack underneath the solar cells. In our next design there will be two battery-packs underneath the solar cells that will be able to alternate between charging and discharging, so while your operating your train the other pack is being charged. Not sure on the cost just yet, but we should have this available by the end of April.

Rick Isard Cordless Renovations, LLC

#2

Rick, I’m having a little trouble with the numbers. Is it TEN 4 volt cells at 50 milliamperes each?

If so, in series that is indeed 40 volts, but only at 50 milliamperes, not really enough to do anything.

If you put them in parallel, that would be 4 volts at 500 milliamperes, or 1/2 amp.

either way I get 2 watts which makes sense…

I think charging a 2 amp hour battery at 0.05 amps would take a very long time, charge takes (very) roughly twice to 4 times the discharge rate…

based on those numbers, discharging a 2000 milliamp hour battery at 50 milliamps would give you 40 hours, and charging would take 80 hours.

Maybe I missed something?

It is, after all, April 1…

Regards, Greg

#3

He did say it was a prototype?

#4

Greg, I agree with you. Series for volts and parallel for current. I put led lighting in my buildings and I parallel two 2500 ma batts and same for cells. Never draw the batts down all the way. He needs to double the number of cells according to my math. I search out Big Lots here in socal for the NiMh AA’s. Usually find a few in a 4 pack for $5. If I am hard up I go to Harbor Freight for NiCd’s.

#5

Hey Rick, where did you get the 4v cells? The ones I harvest from garden solar lights usually only push 2.3 to 2.8 v on a real clear day turned directly to the sun. Once again I get them at Big Lots for $2 a pop.

#6

A prototype is an early sample or model built to test a concept or process or to act as a thing to be replicated or learned from. per Wikipedia…

#7

Greg,

Each solar cell is rated at 4 volts per cell x 10 = 40 volts in series. Wire each cell in parallel at 50 milliamps x 10 = 500 milliamps or solder five cells in series at 20 volts then another five cells in parallel = 250 amps. I’m going to add two additional cells per side = 24 volts @ 300 mills, so while one set of cells are charging one battery pack the other battery is running your engine. The problem with this prototype is just that, there’s still kinks in the design and in the concept so that’s why I thought I would put this prototype out there and see what you guys think? Please keep your thoughts coming!

Rick

#8

Mike,

Cells came from digi-key.

Rick

#9

I can see where this might work parked on a siding in good sunlight, but on a moving train in varying degrees of light I doubt you could achieve a continuous run. Not saying you should give up - it is an interesting concept.

#10

Yes, 10 cells in parallel gives you 500 milliamperes… at 4 volts.

10 in series gives you 40 volts at 50 milliamperes.

To get 40 volts AND 500 milliamperes you need 100 cells…

To get 40 volts AND 250 milliamperes you need 50 cells total…

You have 10 cells on that car, so I get 5 cars for 40 volts AND 250 milliamperes…

(this is why solar panels are so large)

Don’t get me wrong, a very cool idea… you might wire the cars up so you can daisy chain “40 volt” modules… the more in parallel, the more charging current… then you can use a single regulator to regulate the voltage down to the proper level for charging/running.

Greg

Rick Isard said:
Greg,

Each solar cell is rated at 4 volts per cell x 10 = 40 volts in series. Wire each cell in parallel at 50 milliamps x 10 = 500 milliamps or solder five cells in series at 20 volts then another five cells in parallel = 250 amps. I’m going to add two additional cells per side = 24 volts @ 300 mills, so while one set of cells are charging one battery pack the other battery is running your engine. The problem with this prototype is just that, there’s still kinks in the design and in the concept so that’s why I thought I would put this prototype out there and see what you guys think? Please keep your thoughts coming!

Rick

#11
Rick Isard said:
Greg,

Each solar cell is rated at 4 volts per cell x 10 = 40 volts in series.
. . . solder five cells in series at 20 volts then another five cells in parallel = 250 amps.
Rick


Bold emphasis added.

I think you are seriously overestimating the capability of either the silicon or the sun!! :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Rick: On a related topic, I saw on another website that you are dedicated to having the charging unit on board the train. Does this mean that your new 900MHz replacement for the RCS Elite will require an on-board charger?

With the current requirement for two stick controllers (rather than the previous RCS shirt pocket sized controller) on virtually all R/C for trains, and if your device needs to carry the charger on-board, there will no longer be an R/C system that will fit into the small locomotives like the Climax, Shay, etc.

Too bad, as that is one of the things that made the previous RCS R/C + battery system so attractive. In my opinion, this trend is a step backward. I for one have absolutely no interest in either twin stick R/C transmitters or in a system that always requires a trailing car.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#12

Jerry,

The onboard charging systems that I was referring to in another forum are strickly for the Cordless Renovations product lines. We started designing battery-powered trailing-cars in 2005 and will continue to offer an all-in-one system, just like this solar car prototype listed above through Cordless Renovations.

The New RCS RailLinx System does not require an onboard charger nor a battery-powered trailing car. We will continue to offer a small pocket size hand controller that is easy to use, affordable and brings the current RCS Elite series customers from 27mhz to 900mhz. The RCS product lines will continue to be a radio based control system that can be installed directly into your engine and not as battery-powered trailing car.

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC

#13

I think that rather than have onboard solar charging, one might consider two battery cars, and either a) solar panels on every building, or b) an actual model solar power plant that provides power to a charging track. Either way, charge one battery tender while a second one is being used.

I can honestly say that I don’t think there is a prototype for a solar cell car.

#14

Jason,

Those are great suggestions and we have been contacted by one g-scale company to build a solar powered charging station to charge AA or AAA cells in multiple buildings at the same time.

Just like you referred to, in the second version of this design there will be two sets of battery-packs…one charging and the other operating your train.

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC

#15

Rick I would be glade to test it for you. I have a RR that gets almost full sun all day. :slight_smile:
I have two big loco’s a PA and SD70 that are both Batt and track power so I’m not worried about it getting stuck out on the line some were.

#16
Rick Isard said:
Jerry,

The New RCS RailLinx System does not require an onboard charger nor a battery-powered trailing car. We will continue to offer a small pocket size hand controller that is easy to use, affordable and brings the current RCS Elite series customers from 27mhz to 900mhz. The RCS product lines will continue to be a radio based control system that can be installed directly into your engine and not as battery-powered trailing car.

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC


Rick:

Thanks for the detailed reply. That is great news!

I’m really looking forward to seeing your new 900MHz effort.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#17

Jerry my genuine Remote Control Systems (RCS) radio control systems do use the very low cost 2.4 GHz stick type radios. Unlike 900 MHz R/C these have zero need for motor “noise” suppression and there is no need for the antenna to be exposed outside the loco. That means they can even be fitted inside metal tenders with no antenna outside.

The range is way way longer than anything else on the market.
The on board Receiver - ESC combination is smaller than it has ever been and will fit in even very tiny locos. Zero need for trail cars or on board chargers.

You may not like the size of the TX’s but there is no dispute that they offer the lowest cost and longest range of all R/C systems.

#18

Tony:

I understand and fully agree with the advantages you put forth for the 2.4GHz systems. Unfortunately the list of disadvantages is just about as long

The most serious disadvantage for twin stick train controls is the transmitter size and the need to have two hands on it. That and the fact that the sticks are more difficult to operate than the momentary push buttons on the Elsema-based controller. The sticks are also more subject to accidental movement. Putting the transmitter package on a lanyard around your neck does little to solve these issues. Add the fact that the transmitter battery life is shorter, and that the battery is a special one rather than the long-lasting 9V in your previous controller. I was personally very disappointed to see you discontinue your previous line in favor of what in my opinion is a step backwards. I’m certain your opinion is different.

As an aside, I consider that I have some reasonable expertise in the R/C vehicle control area. I recently designed and built the prototype for a radio controlled fire fighting machine. We used a Futaba 75MHz twin stick controller. One stick controls the speed, direction and steering through independent motor speed control of the track motors, and the second stick controls the elevation, azimuth and nozzle output (fog to straight stream) of the 250 to 500GPM fire monitor. Drive motors are 3/4HP, 24VDC, powered by a 75A / motor (220A total surge) FET based electronic speed control that is run by the Futaba servo output. Locked rotor current for each motor is ~45A. There are also a number of on / off digital control functions such as lighting, in-motion alarm, and self-protect water spray flow that are run through a specialized addition to the Futaba R/C. We do have a 1/4 wave cut length antenna on the top of the vehicle, giving us a usable operating range in excess of 1600 feet. We also offer a fiber optic control option that can operate the vehicle at a range up to ~20 miles!

Although we are happy with the performance of the unit, we are in the process of upgrading the R/C system. Due to the probable future lack of support for 75MHz R/C components, we are exploring both 900MHz and 2.4GHz. Another improvement will be repackaging the transmitter in a custom designed, billet machined aluminum control box with industrial grade control sticks and larger, replaceable batteries. The transmitter battery size is important because the fire fighting mission could require that the vehicle operate for over 24 hours on station. We actually have enough internal vehicle battery power for up to 48 hours on station.

Sorry to highjack the thread, but I am really excited about the Firedrake Mobile Monitor. I hope I didn’t hurt any feelings in expressing my disdain for the twin stick control architecture. Again, it just seems to do away with some of the nice features of your shirt pocket-sized transmitter that can control speed, direction, and sound with 8 buttons.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#19

Thanks for the comment Jerry.

Selling off the Elsema based R/C was a bitter pill that I had to swallow if I was to survive in this business.
No matter how handy the transmitter size is the lack of reliable range proved to be just too much of a drawback when compared to the range available with 2.4 Ghz R/C.
Apart from the USA, I had a very good market for my R/C in the UK and Europe. A market that AristoCraft was precluded from selling in with 75 MHz R/C. Likewise 900 Mhz is also not allowed.
Once AC announced the availability of 2.4 GHz R/C for Europe the writing was on the wall for my old Elsema based systems.
Although the old system is currently available in the USA via Mr Goodson, I have serious doubts as to how long that situation will last. Mr Isard has announced replacement TX and RX for the ESC hardware.
It will be interesting to see that actually working.
If and when it does work, expect an instant disappearance of the old Elsema based R/C.

BTW. The power consumption on the latest 2.4 Ghz TX’s is even less than that of the Elsema TX hand piece.

#20
Jerry Bowers said:
The most serious disadvantage for twin stick train controls is the transmitter size and the need to have two hands on it. That and the fact that the sticks are more difficult to operate than the momentary push buttons on the Elsema-based controller. The sticks are also more subject to accidental movement. Putting the transmitter package on a lanyard around your neck does little to solve these issues. Add the fact that the transmitter battery life is shorter, and that the battery is a special one rather than the long-lasting 9V in your previous controller. I was personally very disappointed to see you discontinue your previous line in favor of what in my opinion is a step backwards. I'm certain your opinion is different.
We really should continue this in a new thread, but since you started here...

I totally disagree with the above statement. I’ve been using the HUGE Spektrum DX5 transmitter with my LS Shay and recently converted one loco to battery using RailBoss; very similar to Tony’s Beltrol system. I’ve used the TX in operational situations and have no problem holding it in one hand. The sticks are extremely simple to operate and it can be done without looking at the TX. The throttle stick position instantly indicates speed, where push buttons give no such feedback. You can’t change direction without setting the throttle to zero and I’ve never bumped the throttle in error. If I did, the programming allows me to set a reasonable top speed so the loco can’t take off like a rocket. As far as battery life goes, there you may have a minor point. My TX uses standard AA batteries - not special ones. Because the logic of the ESC is like cruise control, you can switch off the TX if you have a long run to save battery. If you do switch off, it takes a few seconds to link again before the controls will be responsive.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion on Solar Power :smiley: