Large Scale Central

So is 1:20.3 RTR pretty much dead?

General Discussion
#1

I know that with the passing of Mr. Riley that Bachmann pretty much as abandoned 1:20.3 market.

What I also note is the other big 1:20.3 was Accucraft/AMS. I have not seen much from them either lately. I presume the AMS line pretty much has covered most rolling stock though it seems again some items are getting thin in stock. However, new locomotives seem to have vanished.

A year or more back it seems that Accucraft made some long range plans for a C-18, SP #18 and I believe WSL #15 in live steam.

I am guessing that the market is pretty much dead or minimal at this point.

#2

Lorna,

One of the reasons for a lack of activity is that there is a lot of this material still out there in the new and used market. folks that purchased new are now heading for the nursing home or otherwise down sizing. lots to chose from on Ebay at less than great prices it seams. is there specific locomotives you are looking for?

Kits are very limited as well these days, pretty much limited to small production batches when you can find them.

AL P.

#3

I’ve heard exactly the same thing from several dealers, and the evidence is there on ebay and the facebook sales sites.

#4

Another issue is that there isn’t a lot of variety in the narrow gauge railroad world. The D&RGW had a lot of similar stock cars and a lot of similar boxcars. But who needs a lot of similar stuff? And all the K’s have been modelled, so what else is there?
Same with the EBT - a very limited market of amybe 10-20 guys interested in EBT models, and they aren’t buying 5 different Mikados - it took 3 years to get enough orders for just one!

#5

Dear Mr. AL P,

" lots to chose from on Ebay at less than great prices it seams. "

Does " at less than great prices " mean the Prices are now too low for the Sellers?

There has been listed a Brass Delton locomotive for a long time on Ebay and the engine just sits there unsold. Years ago that engine would have been snapped up.

DELTON G SCALE BRASS SOUTHERN PACIFIC 0-4-0 STEAM ENGINE & TENDER #7

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELTON-G-SCALE-BRASS-SOUTHERN-PACIFIC-0-4-0-STEAM-ENGINE-TENDER-7/292503687788?hash=item441a94126c:g:XE8AAOSwDZtZwTv4:rk:15:pf:0

Norman

#6

There has been listed a Brass Delton locomotive for a long time on Ebay and the engine just sits there unsold. Years ago that engine would have been snapped up.

Then I would posit that it is overpriced. There’s a market for everything at the right price. Same goes for freight cars. Ive seen a bunch of ads lately in various places for 1:20 freight cars for $125-$150. They’re worth nowhere near that, IMHO.

#7

Does the Delton 1:24 loco belong in a 1:20 conversation?

Years ago this was a popular scale, even Aristo stopped supporting the size long before their demise…

#8

Hi Bob,

From up here in Canada the purchasing of Bachmann 1:20.3 affordability has completely changed.

The present day 1:20.3 Bachmann 2-6-0 at the American Discount Street Price translates presently to over 1,000.00 Canadian Dollars.

The 1:20.3 Bachmann 4-4-0 at the American Discount Street price when Oil was priced at $100.00 USD translated to 350.00 Canadian Dollars to

even as low as 250.00 Canadian Dollars during the Bachmann End of Production Line Factory Overstock Inventory Blowouts.

Hi John, 1:24 Scale is popular over in England to model 30 Inch Gauge locomotives on SM32 ( 32 mm 1.25 inch Gauge #0 ) track.

The one question I have is that if Bachmann had stayed with 1:22.5 Scale, would Bachmann Large Scale Trains now have a higher sales volume than their present sales volume?

A second question is, Do Large Scale Modelers prefer 1:20.3 Scale and are they happy that Bachmann had changed their product line from 1:22.5 Scale over to 1:20.3 Scale?

Norman

#9

John Caughey said:

Does the Delton 1:24 loco belong in a 1:20 conversation?

Years ago this was a popular scale, even Aristo stopped supporting the size long before their demise…

The op asked about 1:20.3, and it’s a bit early for thread drift. It’s a very specific conversation, not G scale in general, nor the Canadian vs. the US dollar.

There’s still plenty in the used market, and you can find some deals, and some sellers that think their loco is made of solid gold.

Something is worth what the going paying price is, not the asking price… look at completed sales in ebay to see what the market really is.

Greg

#10

Is 1:20.3 dead? I ask how are you relating that? If you are relating to new RTR manufacturer production, I would respond on life support at best. As has been stated there is an abundance of product on many resale sites. The pricing is another issue. True value of a given item is the agreed price between the sellers perceived value and the buyers perceived value.

It is my belief that the large scale hobbly is shrinking. The average age of large scale modelers is ever increasing, indicating that there is little new blood in the group. As the senior members divest their collections, more used material hits the market making for less room for a vendor to recoup his cost for new product. Keep in mind that large scale is a niche market of model railroading, a and 1:20.3 is a niche market of that.

In my opinion the short term future of large scale as a whole, regardless of specific scale, is going to be kitbash and scratch build. Look on this forum for the 6500 flat car thread. I believe we are going back to the garage shop being the future source for supplies. There will be some short run kits that will likely be a bit on the higher price side to cover the cost and not be left with stock to sit on.

#11

And to further agree with Bob, the advent of inexpensive 3d printers puts some of the tricky detail parts in the reach of the average guy… $300 for a printer and free files makes for cheap detail parts.

Greg

#12

Greg Elmassian said:

John Caughey said:

Does the Delton 1:24 loco belong in a 1:20 conversation?

Years ago this was a popular scale, even Aristo stopped supporting the size long before their demise…

The op asked about 1:20.3, and it’s a bit early for thread drift. It’s a very specific conversation, not G scale in general, nor the Canadian vs. the US dollar.

There’s still plenty in the used market, and you can find some deals, and some sellers that think their loco is made of solid gold.

Something is worth what the going paying price is, not the asking price… look at completed sales in ebay to see what the market really is.

Greg

I didn’t bring 1:24 into the conversation, I questioned if it belonged here?
What’s your point?

Norman is your target!

#13

I was AGREEING with you John… two of us saying same thing… quoted you to reinforce that we both agreed that 1:24 was outside the topic… that’s why I lead with the thread drift comment.

#14

Greg Elmassian said:

I was AGREEING with you John… two of us saying same thing… quoted you to reinforce that we both agreed that 1:24 was outside the topic… that’s why I lead with the thread drift comment.

Then perhaps you should have said so.

After 10 years of you ragging on me, how was I to know?

#15

sigh… if I say the same thing as you, that is agreement:

  1. you state “Does the Delton 1:24 loco belong in a 1:20 conversation?”

  2. I state “The op asked about 1:20.3, and it’s a bit early for thread drift”

That is CLEARLY two statements in AGREEMENT

John, remove chip from shoulder and distrust from first reflex.

I have not spent 10 years ragging on you.

Greg

eidt: sorry to the rest of the people on the thread, clearly John is going to be doing this the rest of his life to me… I apologize for the thread pollution… John, GIVE IT A REST…

#16

Lorna,

What I meant to Say, and Bob hit the nail on the head is that eBay prices are way to high. if folks didn’t want a starting price at $150.00 for a standard D&RGW boxcar they would get more interest, and realize a quicker sale at a reasonable price. having purchased when they first issued these cars, current price is about double. I currently only scratch build/kit bash the additional cars I need. the cars I am building were never produced, and while I use technology like laser cutters, 3d printing, etc. to build my models, it is not worth wild to offer as kits, due in part to the fact I have to custom cut all my wood. by the way I model RGS.

Al P.

#17

Hi John,

" Norman is your target! " .

John, Norman moves way too fast for Greg to hit me as the target. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Hi Al,

Thank you for the clarification.

However, I still pay Stupid Prices for some train things that I really want to have. At least ebay makes things available at stupid collector prices that otherwise could never be purchased.

After the ebay fees are deducted, the seller is not really getting rich on the non collector priced items.

Basically,

the reasonable price + ebay fees = the way too high ebay listing price.

Norman

#18

And that is why groups like “G scale Swap and Shop” on Facebook are growing… Not starting a FB rant, but there is a lot of listings on groups like that. No seller fees like eBay.

#19

Greg Elmassian said:

sigh… if I say the same thing as you, that is agreement:

  1. you state “Does the Delton 1:24 loco belong in a 1:20 conversation?”

  2. I state “The op asked about 1:20.3, and it’s a bit early for thread drift”

That is CLEARLY two statements in AGREEMENT

John, remove chip from shoulder and distrust from first reflex.

I have not spent 10 years ragging on you.

Greg

I’m supposed to put a smiley up when you might get confused, try the same.

Oh yes you did on the other site.

#20

I’d have to agree with a lot of the opinions already expressed in this thread. There are only so many Narrow gauge prototypes that companies can take a financial risk on. There are shays, heislers and climaxes available to letter and modify for those modeling obscure back woods operations. Yes there is already a growing used market and I have bought some of it.

To expound on my own personal stakes in the game, I model the EBT in 1:20.3. Iv’e bought one #12 from Accucraft and a second form the used market. I have 20 of Accucraft’s 3 bay hoppers, 2 of B’mans 2 bays and one RYM 3 bay.

I’d like to get a few more of Accucraft’s hoppers this spring but then intend to start scratching some of the differently bottomed variants of the hoppers. If Accucraft did one of the big Mikes in live steam I’d buy it, but as stated by others how many others would make the investment for them to justify the run? As long as I can continue to buy Accucraft rail and tie strips in the future I will be fine. I can start building from scratch what isn’t available and bring the hobby back to it’s roots, actually building the models you want.