What color of flag did the first section of a scheduled passenger train display? Second section? Final Section?
The following is from the October 28, 1956 Book of Rules from the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad Company. I’ve tried to pull out everything pertaining to running trains in sections, that is, where several groups of cars, each pulled by its own locomotive (or locomotives) are run on the same schedule as if they were one very long train with … intermissions … between each section. Older (1920’s) editions of the book show green flags instead of green lamps allowed by day; I suspect by 1956, electrically lighted signals were common enough that they were used all the time and therefore only lamps are mentioned in the book. There are also reports in some forums that each “Section” did not display markers at the rear except the last one; the New Haven rules seem to suggest otherwise (at least for that railroad) as in the definitions we read:
TRAIN. - An engine or more than one engine coupled, with or without cars, displaying markers.
SECTION. - One of two or more trains running on the same schedule displaying signals or for which signals are displayed.
(Ergo, each “train” would have to display its own markers at the rear.)
Here are the rest of the rules applicable to a train moving in “Sections” as described in the definitions, copied exactly from the rule book:
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Unless otherwise provided, all sections except the last will display two green lights in the places provided for that purpose on the front of the engine.
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When a train of one schedule is on the time of another schedule in the same direction, it will proceed on its own schedule.
Trains of one schedule may pass trains of another schedule, and extra trains may pass and run ahead of extra trains.
On single and two tracks a section may pass and run ahead of another section of the same schedule, first exchanging train orders, signals and numbers with the section to be passed. The change in sections must be reported from the next available point of communication.
On three or more tracks, a section may pass another section of the same schedule, but must not enter upon single or two tracks except as provided for in the next preceding paragraph. -
Two or more sections may be run on the same schedule. Each section has equal time-table authority. A train must not display signals for a following section without train orders, except as prescribed by Rules 85 and 95a.
95a. On two or more tracks, on portions of the railroad and at stations designated by time-table, authority to display signals for a following section per Form F will not be required. A representative of the superintendent at the designated stations will verbally instruct conductors, who will notify enginemen. Conductors must know that signals are displayed as prescribed by Rule 20.
- On single track, signals as prescribed by Rule 20 must not be ordered displayed to, nor taken down at, other than a station at which a train register is located.
And, from the various forms of train orders:
F.
FOR SECTIONS.
(1.) Eng 750 display signals and run as First 1 A to Z.
To be used when the number of the engine for which signals are displayed is unknown and to be followed by (2), both being single-order examples.
(2.) Eng 401 run as Second 1 A to Z.
The engine named will not display signals.
(3.) Second 1 display signals H to K for Eng 404.
The engine named will not display signals.
(4.) Engs 400 401 and 402 run as First Second and Third 1 A to Z.
The engine last named will not display signals.
To substitute one engine for another on a section, (5) will be used.
(5.) Eng 750 instead of Eng 751 display signals and run as Second 1 G to M.
The second-named engine will drop out at G and be replaced by the first-named engine; following sections need not be addressed.
If the second-named engine is the last section the words “display signals and” will be omitted.
To annul a section for which signals have been displayed over a division, or any part therof, when no train is to follow the signals, Form K must be used.
When sections are run to an intermediate point of a schedule, the train orders must specify which engine or engines shall assume the schedule beyond such point.
And, for sake of completeness, Form K referred to above:
K.
ANNULLING A SCHEDULE OR A SECTION.
(1.) No 1 due to leave A Feb 29 is annulled A to Z.
(2.) Second 5 due to leave E Feb 29 is annulled E to G.
The schedule or section annulled becomes void between the points named and cannot be restored.
Form K will not be combined with other forms of train orders.
Form K orders, once issued to a conductor or engineman, continue in effect to them, although the schedule, section number, running or work order of their train be changed.
Hope that helps!
Matthew (OV)
It might be noted that in most rule books, even with the advent of electric lights, the common rule, and practise was: Flags by day, and lights by night (Meaning classification lights, on the locomotive)
Green flags or lights, as mentioned in the contribution above this one; were to indicate “Following sections”. White flags or lights (Again flags by day and lights by night) indicated a train that was classed as an “Extra” train that was not on the regular timetable. When the statement is made, “Not on the timetable”, it is not the timetable that passengers pick up at the station. It is the “Employees’ timetable” that shows all trains…freight and passenger, that are scheduled to run daily, over a given period of time.
On most railroads in North America, a “Train”, in order to be a train, always carried “Markers” on the rear. Markers, meaning “Marker lights”…sometimes, but seldom…usually only on local short moves, without a van (Cabbose) on the rear, where the car on the rear did not have brackets to accomodate marker lamps, a red flag was wedged into the coupler of that trailing car. At night, a brakemans’ hand lamp with a red lense, would be hung on the coupler of the last car.
Today…things have changed…Class lights seldom are seen on new locos, and seldom used…it seems…there are no vans on freight trains, except when there is a very long back-up move, where there is a need for a man on the tail-end to protect during the move. Usually the van is locked up, or all windows sealed, and only acts as a safe platform for a person to ride on.
Marker lights are not used, instead a “Fred” (Flashing Rear End Detector) is attached to the coupler of the last car in a train.
A “Fred” is connected to the brake line, and monitors the brake line air pressure. It is powered by batteries, and sends by radio, a report on the air pressure to the cab of the loco. It usually has a flashing red or yellow light…in some places (Almost all) the flashing light is manditory, by law.
Models of locomotives, are often produced for the toy train market, with all sorts of lights. It seems that the more lights, bells and whistles, the better…!!
The only reason a real loco would have a red light, on the front, would be, if it was used as a pusher on the tail end of a train, and was running backwards…or if it was running alone, backwards as a “Train” (Note the definition of “Train” in the foregoing note in this thread)
I stated above, that few newbuild locos have “Class light”…many do, as seen in multi-unit lashups, where the train has a loco as a pusher on the rear, running backwards, where the Class lights would show red, and be considered as “Markers” (Those rear locomotives today are usually controled by radio from the lead unit)
Quote:This had to have been written by a committee.
When a train of one schedule is on the time of another schedule in the same direction, it will proceed on its own schedule.
Thank you, Fred and Mik.
I have found these posts enlightening: especially the reference to the different colored flags.
I guess all my trains are extras as I don’t yet have a working timetable. lol
Fred,
I was surprised also; the 1920’s era NYNH&HRR rule book that the Valley’s was based on used the “flags or lamps” structure you refer to, but the 1958 issue I was using to post the above for whatever reason does not.
Also, on the New Haven, anyway, the white signals on extra trains are only required on trains carrying passengers.
Rule 8 in the NYNH&H rule book specifies your flags or lamps choice, but for whatever reason Rule 20 (above) specifies lights.
Incidentally, anyone wanting a copy of the rule book I’m using, drop me an e-mail …
Matthew (OV)
Oh, and Alan, you’re in luck:
- Extra trains, consisting in whole or in part of passenger equipment with or without caboose, will display two white lights in the places provided for that purpose on the front of the engine.
The display of white signals on other extra trains will be omitted.
On portions of the railroad where no regular trains are authorized, the display of white signals on extra trains may be omitted.
(See, you were doing it right all along and just didn’t know it.)
Matthew (OV) said:Anyone care to help an oldman get through a block here,and explain this line.
On portions of the railroad where no regular trains are authorized, the display of white signals on extra trains may be omitted.
Dave Marconi said:In essence, if you don't HAVE a timetable, and trains just run ... well, whenever you need one, you don't need to mark extra trains as extras .... mostly because EVERYTHING is an extra train.Matthew (OV) said:Anyone care to help an oldman get through a block here,and explain this line.
On portions of the railroad where no regular trains are authorized, the display of white signals on extra trains may be omitted.
So, your one passenger trip a year up the old Roaring Falls branch, where nothing is ever scheduled to go can skip the white flags, because nobody’s going to confuse you with a scheduled movement on the line.
That work?
Matthew (OV)
OK. It kind of covers that old branch line section that we don’t know whether to get rid of or not thing. Thank you Mathew(OV)
To put it in a nutshell, not necessarily counting present day practice:
Each section of a scheduled train displayed green with the last section displaying no color to indicate to tower operators the end of that particular train.
A scheduled train of which there were no following sections would not display any color forward.
Extras would display white. On those railroads or sections of railroads that had no scheduled trains (all ran as extras) the white could be eliminated.
Communication particularly in the early part of the 20th century and before was not as comprehensive as it is now. No phones in the cab or computers and CTC was primarily used on heavy traffic mainlines. Communication between dispatch and train crews was mainly by train orders sent to stations enroute by telegraph and picked up either on the fly or by a stop signal at the depot.
Classification lights or flags thus were very important to tower operators for setting switches and station agents along the route who notified the dispatcher by telegraph when a train passed their location.
So, on a branch line, the daily milk run would probably not fly any colors, then.