Tony,
Most of that you can call “Pragmatism in action”.
Being principled is only for “the stubborn and the dumb”, everyone else is “very flexible and accommodating”. And as they adjust their attitudes, likes and dislikes, they will also attempt to rewrite history. Just in case some of “the stubborn and dumb” dare to remind them.
Their most favourite saying:“Well that was then and this is now!”
you know the saying: Keep your friends close and your enemy’s closer!
Ken Brunt said:Ken, I certainly don't disagree. The problem with such beliefs in that instance is, at that time Saddam was a friend of the the West. He was being armed by the West to take on Iran.
you know the saying: Keep your friends close and your enemy's closer!
Why does this surprise you, Tony?
From 1939 to 1941, Stalin and Hitler were butt buddies. Then Hitler butt fckd him, and he became the best friend of Roosevelt. Churchill held his nose, but accepted Stalin as an ally.
Then, with WWII over, Stalin showed his true colors, and the 50 year Cold War began.
Remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
We used Sadman to keep the Ayatolahs in Iran in check. Sadman was never our friend.
And you can thank old peanut farmer Jimmy for all this. He yanked the rug out from under the Shah of Iran and the rest is history…downhill ever since.
Ken Brunt said:And his leadership lead to the current situation.......Any sign of weakness creates a rallying call against the West. Remember their clerics tell them daily that we are the reason for them being poor and down trodden.
And you can thank old peanut farmer Jimmy for all this. He yanked the rug out from under the Shah of Iran and the rest is history............downhill ever since.
Karl Marx wrote in Das Kapital, “If you tell a lie with enough fervor and repeat it continously, then eventually it will be perceived as the truth”. CNN and several other news sources certainly adhere to the principle.
Hmmm is that Saddam shaking hands with the Devil or the other way around…hard to tell.
It should be pointed out that we put the Shah into power and that he was as ruthless as Saddam ever was, yet the US tolerated him because as we all know you can be the most bloodthirsty savage dictator, as long as you support the US against godless communism.
The Shah regime was hated by the populace, that hatred was extended to the US who supported the Shah. With the US support for the Shah we essentially “grew” the resentment that boiled over into the Iranian revolution. Our fear of Communism overruled any attempt to try to understand the issues of the middle east. All we wanted was an allie against the Commies. So we suddenly found ourselves in the hostage crisis, facing a new regime that fostered a tremendous hatred of the US, and not surprisingly no one here understanding why they were doing what they did.
Same problem when Reagan sent troops to Beruit, no understanding of what the conflict was really about or the region. We just stepped into it. We all know what happened there, and again people wondered why.
We also further infuriated the Iranians by supplying weapons to Saddam during the war he started against Iran. The only reason Donny boy stopped paying social calls on Uncle Saddam was that he got a bit more power crazed than normal and attacked Kuwait. Up to the day before he invaded he was seen as a strong allie in the US eyes against the Iranian foe.
We as a country have a very long history of not comprehending the middle east, all while our leaders (R’s & D’s) allowed Big Oil to hold sway over our energy policies and supporting regimes that in the long run have led to trmendous resentment of the US across the entire region. Instead of funding 30 years of researching alternatives to allow us to withdraw from the middle east and let them happlily kill each other to their hearts content, we got drawn in even deeper till were up to our chins in it energy dependency wise, and even deeper politicaly, to our continual peril.
PS I love it…a neo-con core principal, straight out of “Das Kapital!”
And who is going to protect the world against the godless capitalists…??
I think there were only two Westerners who truly understood the Middle East. One was T. E. Lawrence, and the other was a British General TAD’d to the King of Jordan, a man by the name of Glubb. I had the honor to meet him in 1968 while in college, a fascinating man. You might try to find his book, A Soldier with the Arabs. You might find it in a large library or at an antique book store.
I think that Vic is right, and Verne will have to admit that he is right, if he sits down and thinks about it.
On the other hand, this Palestine thing… Palestine was a creation of the Brits after WWI, when they sold out the Arabs who had helped them defeat the Ottoman Turks. Some say that is why Lawrence died, he committed suicide rather than continue to live with the shame of that decision.
Then, in 1947-48, Israel was carved out of Palestine which was divided into Jordan and Israel. If you agree that the formation of Israel was a good thing to do, and I do not want to get drawn into that argument, then if you are honest, the “Occupied Territories” do not belong to the Palestinians, they belong to Syria (Golan Heights), Jordan (West Bank) and Egypt (Gaza Strip). There is no such thing as a “Palestinian,” they are either Jordanians, or Egyptians, or Syrians.
If my study of the Middle East still serves me, Israel was wrong to force out the very few Arabs (not “Palestinians”) who occupied historic Israel. Remember, at this time, 1947, this was primarily desert with a few oasis (What is the plural of “oasis?”) that supported a few date and olive orchards. Had they accepted them as brothers, I think there would have been far fewer problems. Still, hindsight is 20/20 and Monday morning quarterbacks never throw an interception or incomplete pass.
The people who are now called, incorrectly, “Palestinians,” are really people without a country. Jordan, Syria and Egypt doesn’t want them because they have been radicalized by the Wahabies, and Israel can’t take them for the same reason. Their politicians want them kept in poverty so that the politicians can remain in power. If their economy ever got off the ground, those politicians would no longer be needed, so that is why peace is always rejected.
It is a sad situation and I do not think that anyone will ever be able to solve it. Even the Arabs can’t solve it.
Warren Mumpower said:The godless capitalist have an uncanny knack for shooting their own feet off..
And who is going to protect the world against the godless capitalists..??
Warren Mumpower said:Just sign on the dotted line....and pick up your gun.....you're gonna have a lot of fun!
And who is going to protect the world against the godless capitalists..??
The Lone Railroader said:And its one, ... two,... three,... what are we fighting for? Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is ol' "Sad-Man." [i](updated a little)[/i] :DWarren Mumpower said:Just sign on the dotted line....and pick up your gun.....you're gonna have a lot of fun!
And who is going to protect the world against the godless capitalists..??
Ahh yes, the anthem of a our generation, the Fish Cheer!
I think I’ll just man the command post. It’s called “Spin Central”…
