Large Scale Central

Selling your Trains ? Maybe never again

Found this on the web, very interesting read.

Sounds to bizarre to be true, but apparently it is true.

Hi Gang:

I just spotted this on www.jillcataldo.com about a case of selling items
from overseas:

Your ability to resell your own stuff… could soon be illegal?
http://www.jillcataldo.com/node/23525
Submitted by Coupon Maven on Mon, 10/08/2012 - 4:12pm

There’s an interesting case before the Supreme Court which, if decided
in favor of manufacturers, would make it illegal to sell anything you
own that was made outside the United States.
(Yes, it’s worth reading
that sentence again!)

The case of Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons has already made it through
the appellate courts, and the Supreme Court will decide it this fall. In
a nutshell, here’s what happened. A Cornell University student named
Supap Kirtsaeng noticed it was cheaper to buy his university textbooks
in his native Thailand than in New York. After having his family ship
his Thai-purchased textbooks to the USA, Supap saw a moneymaking
opportunity and began selling more Thai-purchased textbooks on Ebay. The
books were identical to the ones sold in the USA, but it was much
cheaper to buy them outside of the country.

The book publisher, Wiley, was upset and sued Supap, even though they
admitted that they do sell the same textbooks in Thailand for a lower
price than they sell the books for in the USA. /(Well, they didn’t think
anyone would eventually have figured this out?)/ Supap countered saying
his right to resell was protected under the First Sale Doctrine, which
maintains that once you’ve purchased something, it’s yours to resell.

Unfortunately, the appellate court determined that Supap was in the
wrong, claiming that the First Sale Doctrine only applies to items made
in the USA. The case is moving to the Supreme Court now, and if the
decision is upheld, anyone reselling something that was made abroad will
need the permission of the original copyright holder to resell it! Can
you imagine the ramifications this will have for Ebay, Craigslist,
resale shops, garage sales and rummage sales? Further compounding things
is the issue that the original manufacturer will also want a cut of the
resale value.

From MarketWatch
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04?pagenumber=1:

/Tucked into the U.S. Supreme Court’s agenda this fall is a
little-known case that could upend your ability to resell everything
from your grandmother’s antique furniture to your iPhone 4./

/At issue in Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons is the first-sale
doctrine in copyright law, which allows you to buy and then sell
things like electronics, books, artwork and furniture, as well as
CDs and DVDs, without getting permission from the copyright holder
of those products. /

/… if the Supreme Court upholds an appellate court ruling, it
would mean that the copyright holders of anything you own that has
been made in China, Japan or Europe, for example, would have to give
you permission to sell it. Another likely result is that it would
hit you financially because the copyright holder would now want a
piece of that sale./

/It could be your personal electronic devices or the family jewels
that have been passed down from your great-grandparents who
immigrated from Spain. It could be a book that was written by an
American writer but printed and bound overseas, or an Italian
painter’s artwork. /

/In August 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit
upheld a lower court’s ruling that anything that was manufactured
overseas is not subject to the first-sale principle. Only
American-made products or “copies manufactured domestically†were./

/“That’s a non-free-market capitalistic idea for something that’s
pretty fundamental to our modern economy,†Ammori commented./

/Both Ammori and Band worry that a decision in favor of the lower
court would lead to some strange, even absurd consequences. For
example, it could become an incentive for manufacturers to have
everything produced overseas because they would be able to control
every resale./

/It could also become a weighty issue for auto trade-ins and
resales, considering about 40% of most U.S.-made cars carry
technology and parts that were made overseas./

/This is a particularly important decision for the likes of eBay and
Craigslist, whose very business platform relies on the secondary
marketplace. If sellers had to get permission to peddle their wares
on the sites, they likely wouldn’t do it. /

The entire article
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04?pagenumber=1
is definitely worth a read, but seriously - a huge portion of nearly
everything we buy, from electronics to clothing to books are made
outside of the USA. How wasteful of a society will we be if it is no
longer legal to resell things that we own, because we don’t truly “own”
them anymore?

This will definitely be a case to watch…

Nick.

What the heck kind of logic was used to uphold the initial appeal? This would upend what has been considered common practice since before this country was founded, namely; you buy it, you own it. what next you cannot modify your Nissan without permission from the Japanese? If they uphold this case, its proof positive that we are baked, done and ready to serve for dinner as a country, because logic and common sense will have been been outlawed in favor of flawed corporate interests. Appalling if true.

WOW That is crazy. One would like to think that this student that started this snowball fight by buying then reselling the books for a profit was actually just promoting capitalism? Of course when he became the middle man the former middle man got a little upset. Of course books are cheaper in Thailand then here because of our economy over theirs. Another thought, text books are a expensive item for students which already adds to the financila burden of getting a degree. Similar to text books are drugs from Canada or Mexico. Bottom line is we will spend our hard earned money the best way we can so as not to waste it.
If this is true and the snowball turns into a avalanche then watch out. One would think that good ole Common Sense would step in to prevent it BUT sadly there seems to be less and less common sense going around nowadays.

Well, the music and book industry have decided that you can’t share digital stuff you paid for with your friends - or even transfer it from one of your devices to another, without paying more fees or buying it all over again. Sony even used to install a backdoor [that the bad guys could exploit too] into your pooter to make sure you didn’t - they promised to stop.

It’s the new golden rule - He who has the gold makes the rules

We have in Australia absurd copyright rules such that an item published or copyrighted under Australian law cannot be purchased cheaper overseas. If an American music recording artist has a CD or a movie company a DVD, then if rights are held by an Australian arm of the American recording company then it is illegal to purchase the item cheaper outside Australia. If one attempts to purchase an Australian published book purchased overseas from say Amazon, then the selling company is required to add a ‘transaction’ fee to the sale to ensure the overseas price is the same as the local price. The market has gone beserk. Sure copyright is one thing but the all-American free enterprise is under threat and what by - overseas manufactured goods. Is this merely a ploy to control the whole market both local and overseas?

If the original book publisher could sell the books at discounted prices in Asian countries then just how much profit is the publisher making on the same books sold on the mainland?

As we commonly hear on our television sets (now all manufactured in Asia), “the law is an ass.” Basically, given the absurd law, then the second hand market is finished and all items sold are required to be new manufacture, unless made in the good ole’ USA!!! Was it not the American entrepreneurs who sold off local manufacture as it meant more profit to the bottom line???

Edit: take this one step further and China will see this ‘law’ interpretation as an attack on its integrity and sovereignity and its own economic bottom line.

Mik said:
Well, the music and book industry have decided that you can't share digital stuff you paid for with your friends - or even transfer it from one of your devices to another, without paying more fees or buying it all over again. Sony even used to install a backdoor [that the bad guys could exploit too] into your pooter to make sure you didn't - they promised to stop.

It’s the new golden rule - He who has the gold makes the rules


This is why I still only buy [b]hard copy[b/] CDs and [b]hard copy[b/] DVDs, no downloaded anything, and read REAL books, especially after finding out that e-book providers can go into YOUR files and delete copies of books you LEGALLY purchased if they want to, the shear amount on online invasiveness is getting quite ridiculous.

Remember when I said keep your powder dry you will need it soon? I was not wrong!! Paul

MEH! and i thought, it was me, who lives in a banana republic…

it came out double. sorry