Large Scale Central

See what 50 years will do?

General Discussion
#21

Steve Featherkile said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Recent report of lunacy (one of many), the Homeland Security Service wants to erect some barriers at the Vermont/Québec border. Amongst other things the border runs straight smack through the middle of the library in that town. So far they had signs reminding both sides to report to the border “whatever”, better be good planning before one gets to the library, wouldn’t want to stroll back and forth between the shelves and having to report each time one crosses the border - marked by a black line on the library floor. Comment from one Québecois: “Sounds just like the Berlin Wall”! Pretty good analogy!!

Good heavens, HJ, you know we must be careful of patrons of the local library. After all, they just might be literate! We can’t allow that. :lol: The Berlin Wall analogy is a rather poor one, I think. That wall was erected to keep people inside. This wall will be erected to keep people out. Through a library is a bit of a stretch, though. In any case, if Canada took radical Islam more seriously, the wall would not be necessary.

Steve, That all depends from which side you’re looking at the wall. North of the border we (some of us) look at it as keeping people in. Remember you mentioned that you don’t ski in Canada anymore. :wink: :slight_smile: The border states are having fits since the passport requirements have been tightened and what do people say? “We are staying home!” Looks like someone is keeping people in, at least the way I see it! :wink: :frowning: There are reasonable measures and precautions and then there is over the top lunacy!

#22

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

Steve Featherkile said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Recent report of lunacy (one of many), the Homeland Security Service wants to erect some barriers at the Vermont/Québec border. Amongst other things the border runs straight smack through the middle of the library in that town. So far they had signs reminding both sides to report to the border “whatever”, better be good planning before one gets to the library, wouldn’t want to stroll back and forth between the shelves and having to report each time one crosses the border - marked by a black line on the library floor. Comment from one Québecois: “Sounds just like the Berlin Wall”! Pretty good analogy!!

Good heavens, HJ, you know we must be careful of patrons of the local library. After all, they just might be literate! We can’t allow that. :lol: The Berlin Wall analogy is a rather poor one, I think. That wall was erected to keep people inside. This wall will be erected to keep people out. Through a library is a bit of a stretch, though. In any case, if Canada took radical Islam more seriously, the wall would not be necessary.

Steve, That all depends from which side you’re looking at the wall. North of the border we (some of us) look at it as keeping people in. Remember you mentioned that you don’t ski in Canada anymore. :wink: :slight_smile: The border states are having fits since the passport requirements have been tightened and what do people say? “We are staying home!” Looks like someone is keeping people in, at least the way I see it! :wink: :frowning: There are reasonable measures and precautions and then there is over the top lunacy!

I used to drive down to the States quite often. I always enjoyed wandering the backroads and meeting delightfully eccentric people. Alas, with the advent of Homeland Security and all the stories of woe, I haven’t been to the US since. Even changing planes in Honolulu in 2005 was an unnecesary hassle. Maybe next time I visit Australia I’ll go via Hong Kong. However, I agree with the comment on Canada’s lax attitude to radical Islam. I might not have agreed a couple of years ago, but I do now.

#23

HJ, I’m not sure that I said that I don’t ski Canada anymore, but you usually keep such things on file… Perhaps I meant that I hadn’t done so in a while.

Canada is still on my list of places to ski. Just as soon as I can fine two nickles to rub together.

#24

Kevin, there’s a good bet that the US was quite different than Australia back in the 50’s. The recovery from WWII had a lot to do with that. As for life being better today than what I experienced in '57…absolutely no way. Yes, there have been medical improvements and improvements in some areas of mental health, but the quality of “Family” in America today sucks compared to back then. It’s my belief that you measure the quality of a country by the quality of “Family”. It’s never been perfect but it’s also been a steady down hill slide the whole time.

I will say that in some areas of this country that life for poor whites in large metro areas and minorities was not rosy. That’s changed…but not for the better…just different.

#25
Steve Featherkile said:
HJ, I'm not sure that I said that I don't ski Canada anymore, but you usually keep such things on file... Perhaps I meant that I hadn't done so in a while.

Canada is still on my list of places to ski. Just as soon as I can fine two nickles to rub together.


Steve,

Actually that filing system is called my memory, seems to drive people to distraction. :smiley: :smiley: But if one has a good memory might as well use, don’t you think??

#26
Warren Mumpower said:
Kevin, there's a good bet that the US was quite different than Australia back in the 50's. The recovery from WWII had a lot to do with that. As for life being better today than what I experienced in '57...absolutely no way. Yes, there have been medical improvements and improvements in some areas of mental health, but the quality of "Family" in America today sucks compared to back then. It's my belief that you measure the quality of a country by the quality of "Family". It's never been perfect but it's also been a steady down hill slide the whole time.

I will say that in some areas of this country that life for poor whites in large metro areas and minorities was not rosy. That’s changed…but not for the better…just different.


One of the things that I like about this forum is that people can disagree without it becoming personal (mostly). I’m enjoying this discussion.

I suppose there is no real way to compare 1950s Australia with 1950s USA, but I doubt they were that much different. There are around 200 countries in the world (the number seems to change every day) and some of them fall into clusters of similarity. The countries of Scandinavia come to mind. But I would also suggest that Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and (maybe stretching it slightly) the USA would be similar. I leave the United Kingdom out of this list because they were in a depressed economic state in the 1950s.

I lived in Australia for my first 35 years and have lived in Canada since. While I have made many trips to the US, my main knowledge comes from TV shows, movies, and the trivia that passes for news broadcasts. Not perfect knowledge, but a general impression.

Having said that, I was born and raised in a poor family in a poor neighbourhood which would probably be analogous to the coal mining region of West Virginia. There was also a lot of heavy industry and steel making, so maybe the outer suburbs of Pittsburg (or Hamilton, Ontario) is more apt. Things were tough when I was growing up, and maybe they still are for the people there. I no longer live there, thanks in great part to the initiatives of a very socialist government of the type people here decry.

Throughout my life, on 2 different continents, I have noticed that people of a certain age seem to look back on the good ol’ days with a fondness and a longing that seems to make their memory somewhat selective. I heard it from 60+ year-olds when I was a kid, I heard it when I was a young adult, and I’m hearing it now. I stumbled across a reference at university where a writer was lamenting the decline of familiy values and how children have no respect for their parents. It was written in ancient Egypt (I wish I had kept a copy).

Our society is not perfect and there are lots of bad things happening. My point all along was that these things are not new. Bad things were happening back then, it’s just that we didn’t hear much about them. Today the media seems to capitalise on
bad news and our fears (that seem to grow with age). Back in the 50s and 60s the media was more interested in telling us to “Duck, and cover.”

#27

Deleted. My dial-up glitched.

#28

I had the opportunity to visit Perth and Freemantle, Australia some 15 or so years ago (seems like it was just yesterday) during a port visit. Aside from spending more time than necessary riding the train between the two cities, I spent most of my time in Perth. My impression, based on all of a week, was that Perth reminded me a lot of Bellingham, WA, during the 50’s while I was growing up. Not the downtown area, that was thoroughly modern, but out in the suburbs. I had my bicycle with me, and got around on it. One thing is certain, people in automobiles do not see cyclists any better in Perth than they do in Sandy Ago or Spokane. :lol: The homes and the people had a certain sturdy continence about them that reminded me of the area around my Grandparent’s home, right down to the RR tracks winding their way through the area. I had a grand time and met some really great people.

Kevin, if you base your knowledge of the United States on what you see on the tube or in the movies, or even on the news, you are doing this great country a great disservice. What is on the tube and in the movies is pure fantasy and bears little relation to reality, and what is on the news is slanted to the sensational. “If it bleeds, it leads.” I don’t watch commercial TV any more simply because I do not appreciate being insulted, and rarely go to the movies for the same reason. If you want to get to know the US, take an extended trip on a bicycle, or, better yet, go to Marty’s annual conclave in September.

I’ve been in Canada many times, and to be sure, there is very little difference between Canada and the United States. Granted, it has only been British Columbia, so if B.C. does not represent Canada… One thing I’ve noticed is that many physicians will come to the US to escape socialized medicine so they can earn what they are worth. Then, when they get here, they proceed to tell me how bad the US really is. I admit to being confused. If the place is so bad, why are they here?

When I first joined the Navy, I would listen to these old Chief Petty Officers telling me it was time for them to retire because they did not understand the “New, modern Navy.” How could they not understand? The Navy is what it is. When it was time for me to retire from active duty, I understood what they had been talking about.

#29
Steve Featherkile said:
I had the opportunity to visit Perth and Freemantle, Australia some 15 or so years ago (seems like it was just yesterday) during a port visit. Aside from spending more time than necessary riding the train between the two cities, I spent most of my time in Perth. My impression, based on all of a week, was that Perth reminded me a lot of Bellingham, WA, during the 50's while I was growing up. Not the downtown area, that was thoroughly modern, but out in the suburbs. I had my bicycle with me, and got around on it. One thing is certain, people in automobiles do not see cyclists any better in Perth than they do in Sandy Ago or Spokane. :lol: The homes and the people had a certain sturdy continence about them that reminded me of the area around my Grandparent's home, right down to the RR tracks winding their way through the area. I had a grand time and met some really great people.

Kevin, if you base your knowledge of the United States on what you see on the tube or in the movies, or even on the news, you are doing this great country a great disservice. What is on the tube and in the movies is pure fantasy and bears little relation to reality, and what is on the news is slanted to the sensational. “If it bleeds, it leads.” I don’t watch commercial TV any more simply because I do not appreciate being insulted, and rarely go to the movies for the same reason. If you want to get to know the US, take an extended trip on a bicycle, or, better yet, go to Marty’s annual conclave in September.

I’ve been in Canada many times, and to be sure, there is very little difference between Canada and the United States. Granted, it has only been British Columbia, so if B.C. does not represent Canada… One thing I’ve noticed is that many physicians will come to the US to escape socialized medicine so they can earn what they are worth. Then, when they get here, they proceed to tell me how bad the US really is. I admit to being confused. If the place is so bad, why are they here?

When I first joined the Navy, I would listen to these old Chief Petty Officers telling me it was time for them to retire because they did not understand the “New, modern Navy.” How could they not understand? The Navy is what it is. When it was time for me to retire from active duty, I understood what they had been talking about.


I’ve never been to Western Australia. It’s shameful really. I have been all over Canada and have been in every US state, but I never seemed to venture away from the east coast of Australia. I’m told Perth is a beautiful city.

Of the big three English speaking countries, Australia possibly varies the least from place to place, while I think Canada is the most regionally diverse. Newfoundland is very different to BC, for example. Those observations may be reversed if we’re talking politcal attitudes.

I have traveled quite a bit in the US. I was on a mission to “collect” all the states. I got Misouri in 1998 and my colllection was complete. My favourites, for a variety of reasons, are Virginia, Pennsylvania, Oregon and Utah. I won’t say the one that I dislike the most but it has a T and an X in its name.

I work in the Health Care System and I can say that I much prefer the Canadian approach to the US one. I think I am able to deliver much better service here than I would be in the States. However, a colleague of mine moved to the US in the early 1990s and tripled her salary overnight. I suppose I can’t blame the Canadian doctors for moving south, but they should have the decency to shut up and count their blessings. There’s an old proverb about biting the hand …

I agree that the popular media is not a good source of information. It’s mostly just a perverted sort of emotional voyeurism. Your’s is a fine country and a land of interesting contrasts; the best and the worst. The thing that amuses me the most about the USA is that it praises the rugged individualist and yet people go so far as to have surgery to ensure they have A.S.T. (American Standard Teeth).

I think I’ve already said that TV is fantasy. It was Warren who suggested that “Leave It To Beaver” et al is idealised but not fantastic.

Your Navy comment is a good example. Our perceptions change over time. It’s only natural to remember fondly the times of our youth, but it doesn’t pay to forget the whole story. We now live in generally good times where we can persue happiness and hobbies more easily than ever before. Although many refuse to believe it, the overall stats suggest we live in the safest society that has ever existed in all of human history. (I am, of course, only referring to what I think of as the English-speaking “family” of countries.)

I truly hate to agree with Oprah. It makes me shudder even now. But I’m told she has started some sort of campaign to stop us all from bitching. Maybe something good will come from that plastic face that stares at me from the magazines in the supermarket check-outs.

#30

A lot of our perception of life comes from the economic background we were raised in. You came from a poor working class family where the stresses of bare survival had it’s effects on the family. I came from a middle class professional (teacher) family. The kids I grew up with and went to school with were all from middle class families. The expectations that adults had of us and the standards they set were quite high. Naturally as a kid I didn’t like the demands placed on me, but now 50 years later I can see where my teachers and parents were coming from. I know I have a good education and I know that what I learned by the time I graduated from High School is more than many learn by the time they get their college degree. It’s a crying shame when you read articles by professional journalists that can’t spell or use the English language correctly. I see it every day in newspapers, and on the web. People have no command of math because they are so used to using calculators. Too many parents now hire the TV for their babysitter rather than providing quality family time together.

I don’t see how in the world anybody can say we live in a safer society now than we did 50 years ago. Then we had no violence in the schools I attended. There were no massacres of students by crazed nutcases. We didn’t have to be searched every time we entered a government building. We didn’t have cameras on every street corner spying on us. We didn’t have terrorists killing thousands of people in our own homeland. We didn’t have a meth lab in our neighborhood and kids were not dealing drugs on the street corners downtown. This isn’t old man fantasy; this is reality. Back then they dealt with juvenile delinquency severely…as least where I lived. If you wound up in front of a judge with anything very serious, you were sentenced to the remainder of your school years to a military academy. If you were an older teen the judge sentenced you to 4 years in the army. That usually made a man out of the delinquent. Of course we didn’t have a half stoned army then either…at least not until Viet Nam. :frowning: There was one thing that happened back then that was really bad and I’m glad it no longer occurs. Teen girls that became pregnant…disappeared. The story was that she went to live with her “aunt” for the year. Reality was they were sent to girls homes to have the kid…out of sight, out of mind, in shame. The baby was always put up for adoption. To me, that was bad!

#31
Warren Mumpower said:
A lot of our perception of life comes from the economic background we were raised in. You came from a poor working class family where the stresses of bare survival had it's effects on the family. I came from a middle class professional (teacher) family. The kids I grew up with and went to school with were all from middle class families. The expectations that adults had of us and the standards they set were quite high. Naturally as a kid I didn't like the demands placed on me, but now 50 years later I can see where my teachers and parents were coming from. I know I have a good education and I know that what I learned by the time I graduated from High School is more than many learn by the time they get their college degree. It's a crying shame when you read articles by professional journalists that can't spell or use the English language correctly. I see it every day in newspapers, and on the web. People have no command of math because they are so used to using calculators. Too many parents now hire the TV for their babysitter rather than providing quality family time together.

I don’t see how in the world anybody can say we live in a safer society now than we did 50 years ago. Then we had no violence in the schools I attended. There were no massacres of students by crazed nutcases. We didn’t have to be searched every time we entered a government building. We didn’t have cameras on every street corner spying on us. We didn’t have terrorists killing thousands of people in our own homeland. We didn’t have a meth lab in our neighborhood and kids were not dealing drugs on the street corners downtown. This isn’t old man fantasy; this is reality. Back then they dealt with juvenile delinquency severely…as least where I lived. If you wound up in front of a judge with anything very serious, you were sentenced to the remainder of your school years to a military academy. If you were an older teen the judge sentenced you to 4 years in the army. That usually made a man out of the delinquent. Of course we didn’t have a half stoned army then either…at least not until Viet Nam. :frowning: There was one thing that happened back then that was really bad and I’m glad it no longer occurs. Teen girls that became pregnant…disappeared. The story was that she went to live with her “aunt” for the year. Reality was they were sent to girls homes to have the kid…out of sight, out of mind, in shame. The baby was always put up for adoption. To me, that was bad!


While I think Australia and the US were probably fairly similar in the 50’s, your mention of searches and cameras and other forms of security force me to concede that maybe the US is quite different today. Maybe I’ve been generalising too much, but here in Canada there are no obvious security measures. I do a lot of my work in schools (I’m a Speech Pathologist) and there is no atmosphere of mistrust or fear. Admittedly I live and work in small towns, but I always have.

You are probably right that perceptions are largely affected by one’s SES. I’m trying to compare my working class upbringing with my current perceptions of similar families. What I see is that the poorest people in town seem to live a better life now than back then. For example, my family could never afford a car. A similar family could now.

I hope I haven’t painted an overly gloomy picture of my childhood. Mine was a poor but nevertheless loving family. We had our share of good times.

I admit the meth labs are scary. A nearby small town had its first ever murder recently, thanks to meth. On the other hand, as tragic as the 9-11 attacks were, I tend to look at that as a fairly unusual event. These days we live in the fear of terrorism, back then it was a fear of nuclear attack. Politicians will always get mileage from our fear of the unseen enemy.

What I hear about crime rates and violence from fairly reputable radio and news sources (CBC and government sources for example) suggests that violence in our society is on the decline. For example, women are safer on the streets at night now than they were back then. Of course, we didn’t hear of any incidents because women just didn’t go out on the streets at night back then. I believe Statistics Canada can back me up, but I don’t have precise references.

#32

Loosely stated, this thread is about contrasts.

The poorest of our poor can (usually) afford an automobile. It may not be this year’s Lexus, but it provides reliable transportation. The poorest of our poor can (always) afford a refrigerator, a radio, a stereo player for CD’s (boombox), a television. Almost always they have decent housing, provided by the guvmint, which they then proceed to trash. The poorest of our poor has access to education. Yes, there are problems with out inner city school, but the kids in Somalia and Uganda would give their “eye teeth” for the opportunity to attend those schools. The poorest of our poor have guvmint subsidized meals at home and at school. The poorest of our poor have adequate winter clothing, or, if not, here in Spokane, there is a charity to provide winter coats for them.

Compared to the poorest of the poor in the rest of the world, our poor are wealthy beyond measure!

Please do not misunderstand. I want for them all of the blessings of this great land. I am just pointing out the contrast between what is considered poor here, and elsewhere.

#33

Steve, my axe to grind is not about those that live far below the poverty level and get everything given to them by the government, but those of a working class, because their income level is too high, have to live at a standard below the welfare recipients because they earn too much. There is a large class of working people in the US that work themselves to the bone at minimum wage and can’t even live as good as a welfare recipient. These are the forgotten people of this country. These are the people that big business trample on. These are the people that suffer the greatest because of incompetent, self serving bozos running our government.

Kevin, since Bush took over this country’s government it has changed considerably. 911 has been the excuse. Back in the 50’s the nuclear threat was an invisible threat that really didn’t affect our everyday life…at least not for the average citizen. But the current “terrorist threat” has affected everything about our lives. We have become a police state. Because of 911 this is not an unseen threat but our politicians have capitalized on it and used it to expand the powers of government. Our government’s reaction has been like that of waving a red cape in the face of a bull. We are drawing the attention of the crazies upon ourselves, thus creating our own worst enemy.

#34

You know, it’s funny… In our society it’s no longer OK for people to “hate” because of ethnicity, but it is perfectly fine to do so based upon economic circumstance. Instead of well to do people looking at the poorer ones and thinking “There but for the grace of God, go I”, many proclaim that those kind of people are a drain upon “their” society, and should somehow be gotten rid of. Rush and all those other far right radio people make it sound soooo logical, too.

Welfare to work is great…in theory. Get people off the welfare rolls, make 'em productive citizens…sure is a wonderful idea! Now that single mom is working 2 minimum wage jobs, has no healthcare, and has to pay significant portion of what little she makes to a daycare center so her kids are someplace safe while she’s working…Has the quality of her life and the life of her children been improved? Who cares! She made her own luck!

Sure she has a car, a 20+ YO POS that eats up her meagre savings with maintenance so that she can’t afford to get another one…until it finally dies and she has to borrow (at outrageous rates, you can’t GET a good deal at a finance company if you actually NEED the money) to get another one, so she can get to work…putting her even further behind. Once again, she made her own luck!

And for those who are disabled, err, lazy, and can’t (won’t) work, you’re already living like a king on SSI at $650/month. My taxes paid for it, so what’s your problem? You made your own luck!

Yes the ultra liberals are just as bad with their “soak the rich” mindset…but far more rich people look for loopholes to get out of paying their legally owed taxes than poor folks.

Sorry for the rant, my 14YO daughter came home VERY upset Friday because she got harassed at school…seems the pretty rich people have decided it’s OK to call her “white trash” because we cannot afford to buy her (and wouldn’t anyway) the latest clothes, shoes, and accessories…they also saw me pick her up for an appointment in my 22YO much patched POS van (all I can afford on disability, but hey, I made my own luck! Didn’t I?)

#35

Warren - This thread is heading off in a slightly different, but very interesting direction.

I didn’t want to say it out loud. Internal US politics should be none of my business despite the fact that your choice of government has a certain affect on my life. But the truth is I stopped visiting the US at about the same time that Bush came to power. Quite frankly, he scares me. He scared me before 9-11, and he became scarier after.

From participation in photography forums, I’ve heard stories about citizens being restricted from their harmless hobbies in the name of security. One man even reported that the police were summoned to question him when he was seen photographing his country’s flag!

In Australia the police can enter your house without a warrant if they suspect “drugs ‘n’ terror”.

Even here in moderate Canada, where we managed to avoid being pulled into the total furor of anti-terrorism, we now have people locked up indefinitely without trial. How can we protect our freedom by surrendering our freedom?

I am hoping that in 2008 the US political situation will change and your country will begin to regain it’s former reputation. I hope it will help to lead us out of this new inquisition and back to some sanity and tolerance.

Steve: once again I perceive a certain anger in your writings:
"… they have decent housing, provided by the guvmint, which they then proceed to trash. "
It’s a common thread to blame the victims for their plight. The unemployed are to blame for unemployment. The poor are to blame for poverty. And single mothers are to blame for everything else. The next time you accidently knock a hole in the wall, take a look at the receipt from the hardware store. It will be the cost of several meals.

I know I must come across as some sort of “bleeding heart”, but from what I read here, this forum needs the balance.

“The optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true.”

#36

Ah yes, the happy days of the fifties when black folk could ride in the back of the bus, go to their own schools and drink from their own water fountains. When a man could be a deadbeat dad and get away with it. When the must have backyard accessory was a bomb shelter. When cigarettes were advertised as being good for your health. Child molestation? I’m sure it did not exist then since it was never heard of or talked about.

-Brian

#37

Kevin I have to agree with what you have said above. Bush was scary…and now he’s terrifying. He’s been the worst thing that’s happened to this country. You have every right to express your feelings because his incompetence and self serving attitude has left a black mark on all of the free world.

And Mik, I agree with you too. The ultra right lives in it’s own world and believes that the rest of us have no right to exist. I feel for your daughter and I hope she doesn’t grow into being an adult full of anger over her treatment. There are a lot of good people in this world and they don’t all wear suits and live in expensive houses.

Brian, I lived in the segregated South until my second year of military. Yes, there were some really bad things going on, but it wasn’t everywhere…and it wasn’t segregation that was the cause…but hatred to the core of some people’s heart. The bus thing was a 2 way street. I’m white and I got kicked off a bus because I sat in the back…on a bus that had no blacks…and was traversing white only neighborhoods. :confused: But on the other hand I’ve seen integration destroy the Black culture. When integration looked like it was going to become a reality I had a heart to heart talk with an older black man…an employee of my neighbor’s. He and his family and many of the good blacks feared integration as much as the whites and felt that the “do gooders” were sticking their noses where they didn’t belong. Where I was raised, the school system was the same for the backs as for the whites…same curiculum, same text books. They had the newer schools…until the last 2 years of HS when the city built 2 new white schools. I know this wasn’t true everywhere, but then again the lessions taught in the schools today about segregation are not the whole truth either. As for cigarettes, that was a double whammy…lies from the companies…and a medical profession that had yet to fully grasp the harm of cigarette smoke. But then again we didn’t have the bad smog that we have to suffer through today while our government sits in denial and refusing to take the necessary measures to reign it in.

We never had a bomb shelter and never gave having one a thought.

Nothing has really changed when it comes to deadbeat dads…except there is more of them. They are still around, and today we have deadbeat moms. Yes, there is a system in place to catch some of them but not all…only the ones from poor families. Mom generally has to be on welfare assistance before the government will even think of looking for the deadbeat.

Child molestation…now that’s a real flip flop. As you noted, it was seldom reported back in the 50’s. Now we have people going to jail for false accusations. If a teacher gets on the wrong side of a little girl all she has to do is make the false accusation of molestation and his career is ruined…even if he’s proven innocent. Better…no, just different. The real molestations continue.

#38

This is a fascinating thread. It started with a number of scenarios comparing 1957 to 2007, but many of the scenarios depicted violence toward minors, or minors in dangerous situations.

I believe that it is my duty, not as a family member, not as a society member, but as a member of this species, to protect our young. I believe any child in the world can come to me for help and it is my duty to render it. I realise I can’t single-handed save the world, but any child that shows up on my doorstep will be protected to the best of my ability.

It bothers me deeply to hear people condoning violence toward children, regardless of the reason. There are other ways to discipline children.

When it comes to child molestation, I believe we had entered a “witch hunt” phase in the 80s and 90s, but we appear to be coming through it now. I work with children, sometimes alone, and I always take precautions to protect my reputation. Even an unsubstantiated rumour could destroy my career. Fortunately the kids I work with are rarely older than 7, so they tend not to concoct schemes like that.

But 50 years ago, children who were being molested were ignored or disbelieved.

So which is worse: a child who is molested and then ignored or even punished for trying to report it, or an inocent person going to jail for molestation? I don’t know the answer to that.

In terms of fear of nuclear war, I’ve gotta give the prize to Reagan. That was when I contemplated building a bomb shelter.

#39

Boy am I embarrassed!

After saying that I haven’t visited the US since Bush was elected I just remembered my visit last year. OK, it was a quicky; less than 24 hours. But this is a train-related site and where was I? Riding the White Pass & Yukon. And if that’s not bad enough, there’s a framed poster on wall right next to me.

I think it’s time for a scotch.

#40

Pour me one too…:smiley:

The child abuse problem has most likely gotten to the point where it’s going to run it’s course. I just wish I could feel that it would go to the center and get some sensibility to it. But if history holds true it will most likely swing back the other way too far. I don’t consider a little corporal punishment as violence. It sure didn’t hurt me. (In the long run) I see it as teaching a child that unacceptable behavior has consequences…and if that behavior is bad enough that those consequences can be severe. I just don’t think “time outs” teach that. Kids grow up believing that life is nothing more than a series of time outs and then they reach adulthood and reality slaps them in the face. Children that exhibit a lot of independence need stronger punishment. It’s harder to get their attention to the point that they understand the seriousness of their unacceptable behavior. On the other hand I believe that if bruises are left…you’ve gone too far.

Ok, I’ll shut up…:confused: