Large Scale Central

Scale Selection / Wireless control of Power Trucks

General Discussion
#1

I am working on getting into 1/32 or 1/29 scale garden railroading. As a kid, I grew up visiting the Los Angeles County fairgrounds every year in Southern California, which had an amazing outdoor layout. As a kid, I never quite understood what scale it was, and later learned it was ½” Scale (standard gauge), on “Number 3” gauge track. (I also later learned that my grandmother knew the machine shop schoolteacher who built / operated the layout!). This was 100% scratchbuilt stuff back then.

In any case, as much as I’m enjoying building a small, 2ft x 12ft HO scale switching layout, I’m dying to get outside also.

I have been reading up for a good 6 months, and am totally struggling between 1/29 and 1/32 – the difficulty being the fact that I’m noticing the gauge discrepancy with 1/29. I’m basically 99% settled on standard gauge, as that’s just what I’m into. (I also dig traction, but I have to put some limits on myself).

I see three potential routes for myself:

 1)	Go with 1/32

Buy MTH stuff, and hope it continues to be available in the future (I’ve heard rumors that it may not be, and I’ve sent emails to MTH asking about it, with stock / vague answers). I’ve looked at their facebook site, and I see no mention of 1/32 whatsoever. Also the “dealer direct, get it while supplies last” banner on their website that’s been up for at least 6 months, with no new catalog coming out is disconcerting.

Scratchbuild, scratchbuild, scratchbuild. This very website has opened my eyes to what can be done. Some of the work is just mindblowing (I’m thinking of some Amtrak locos / cars, as well as some long, modern boxcars – Wow you guys!) For reasons I can’t even explain, to me, custom stuff has always been the most attractive. (In the HO scale world, for example, and expensive brass loco does nothing for me – an amazingly weathered $100 loco is way more impressive).

 2)	Use 1/29, but re-gauge my track

I’ve read about the other guy is doing on this site (Craig, I believe). I would totally do that (and admire him for doing so), except for the fact that there are some other “G scalers” in my neighborhood, and I’d like to get interacting with them more frequently once I jump into the “big stuff”. Taking trains over to your buddy’s house seems to be part of the enjoyment.

 3)	Get on with life, and just do 1:29, with the standard 45mm track.

My stuff will look “swollen”, but at least there will be a lot available, and I can get started much sooner. Some of the 1/29 layouts I’ve seen online are super cool (Marty Cozad comes to mind…)

Now, to some questions (If you’ve been crazy enough to read this far…)

If I were to go the sratchbuidling route, is it possible to drive Aristocraft (or USA trains) 1/29 motor trucks directly with the CVP Airwire system? As in, could I have a 2x4 or a cardboard box sitting on two power trucks, with the Airwire system and some batteries, and drive the thing around? That is, there’s no Aristocraft or USA trains electronics used at all.

Bonus round: could I use Phoenix Sound system in the same cardboard box?

The reason I’m asking, is I’m considering scratchbuilding 1/32 locomotive bodies onto 1/29 power trucks. Then, maybe as life continues, I’ll just eventually design my own power trucks. I’m a mechanical engineer, use CAD (Solidworks) All day, every day, so I’m totally comfortable with those types of things, but also want to start with something off the shelf to get me up and running – hence using existing 1/29 powered trucks. I do realize the axle-to-axle spacing will be 10% too large when using 1/29 trucks, but I could live with that.

Thank you for your help everyone, and I’m very much looking forward to getting into the Big Trains…

-James

#2
James Cuevas said:
If I were to go the sratchbuidling route, is it possible to drive Aristocraft (or USA trains) 1/29 motor trucks directly with the CVP Airwire system? As in, could I have a 2x4 or a cardboard box sitting on two power trucks, with the Airwire system and some batteries, and drive the thing around? That is, there's no Aristocraft or USA trains electronics used at all.

Bonus round: could I use Phoenix Sound system in the same cardboard box?

-James


Absolutely!

And welcome.

With just about all the Radio Control systems out there for large scale trains, being self-contained, so to speak, is pretty much a given. I run Bachmann narrow gauge stuff, and except for some of the newer engines, which now come Plug-N-Play, they’ve all been gutted of any of the electronics that came in them. The circuit boards that come with the R/C stuff has terminals for lights, sound systems and engine power and they can be triggered from the transmitter.

I have one Aristo engine, the RailBus, and the circuit board that came in it has been removed. If I remember correctly, the motor block had 2 sets of wires coming from it, but it was rather easy finding the correct leads to power the motor block. Right now, all that’s used to run the Railbus is a 12 volt battery and an on/off switch, but a R/C system wouldn’t be difficult to install.

There are quite a few guys on here that scratch build or kit bash their motive power, so they can chime in with how they did their particular stuff. Most of them have gutted the chassis of the factory electronics or just used a particular manufacturers motor block.

Just an FYI, I have a 3’ x15’ On30 switching layout in the basement and an outdoor layout. Pretty fun stuff!

#3

Yep ya sure can…actully I tend to remove all the factory electronics when I do an install…Welcome!

#4

Welcome aboard James. As they’ve said yes you can. You’ll find a great bunch here, with some being highly opinionated, just remember it’s your RR and there are many ways to accomplish your goals.

#5

Welcome James - I think you got your answer on power & sound for battery-R/C. It’s also possible to cross wire most power trucks so that they will run on track power with no electronics (sitting under your cardboard box or 2x4). I actually did set up a pair of Bachman 45 Ton trucks connected with a paint stick and ran them around on track power to test a re-wiring job.

Scale/Gauge is an old issue that won’t ever go away. If you want the widest selection of Ready to Run stuff, then 1:29 is your best choice. But, if you plan to scratch build a lot then 1:32 is certainly an option. There are several sources of freight cars; Accucraft’s American Mainline (AML) line is 1:32 made to support their 1:32 live steam locos. So long as you don’t mind older style cars. I believe MTH is the only 1:32 source for modern freight.

I wouldn’t recommend the re-gauging route. While certainly possible, it would entail a huge amount of work to even get a modest layout up an running. And, as you mention, part of the fun is visiting other layouts (and having visitors)
which requires compatibility of gauge, but not necessarily scale.

Personally; I went with 1:29 (with some 1:24 mixed in) and learned very quickly to accept to look. One plus; the oversize locos make the oversize track look a little better :slight_smile: I also do 1:20.3 on the same track, but in different trains.

#6

I’ve gone with 1:29, and don’t notice the slightly narrow gauge track, since I’m looking at the trains, not the track.

When I see 1:32 stuff, I notice that it seems very small, almost like 0 scale stuff.

Just my 2 cents worth.

#7
James Cuevas said:
I am working on getting into 1/32 or 1/29 scale garden railroading. I see three potential routes for myself: 
 2)	Use 1/29, but re-gauge my track

I’ve read about the other guy is doing on this site (Craig, I believe). I would totally do that (and admire him for doing so), except for the fact that there are some other “G scalers” in my neighborhood, and I’d like to get interacting with them more frequently once I jump into the “big stuff”. Taking trains over to your buddy’s house seems to be part of the enjoyment.

 3)	Get on with life, and just do 1:29, with the standard 45mm track.

-James


James,
I’m the crazy one that is reguaging everything to the correct 56.5" gauge. Even though I enjoy operating my trains at other people’s layouts, and would love to have them bring their trains over to mine to operate on, I realized that if I was in HO scale still I wouldn’t want to host a 1970 operating session, and have someone bring their turn of the century steamer, or modern diesel locomotive over and run on my layout. It wouldn’t look right. So by keeping my gauge different from 45mm I can control what runs on my layout, as I’m interested in prototype modeling in large scale. Having been in large scale for over 10 years now I wasn’t at first really concerned about the whole scale/gauge issue. But as I thought about my goals and interests I realized that I wouldn’t be happy without (in the same manner that I don’t like to selectively compress buildings). For some people the whole scale/gauge issue isn’t that big of an issue, but for others it is (and I’m not just talking about 1/29 1/32). That said I might keep a locomotive and caboose at 45mm to take with me to run at other people’s layouts. But I’m not sure. I think that the whole interoperability thing can be a draw back and a plus to large scale depending on how you look at it. Other people have asked why not just model 1/32. It looks way to small to me, and as you’ve pointed out the manufacturers options are limited compared to 1/29.

Craig

#8

James,

Welcome!

One point that hasn’t been brought up yet…what era are you considering? If it’s post 1960 then the 1/29 equipment is the most abundant.

I’d chose your choice number 3…see if the track gage really bothers you after you’ve had it set up for awhile…it may not.

One thing that makes teh 1/29 look not as swollen is the fact that most of the track is .332 tall (code 332). Which in 1/29 would be over 9.5" tall (super hi rail!). If you put that track under a 1/32 model now you’ve got track that’s over 10.5" tall. I’m begining to change over from 332 to code 215 (just over 6" in 1/29).

As to your cardboard box and trucks…I did just that when I got my Airwire…I had a loose power truck and decided to see how it worked so I ran in on my table (you don’t even need track with battery power!). Yes, to your sound card question also. I had some Soundtraxx cards from ‘O’ scale that I hooked up into the Airwire system and have been happy with the results.

Scratchbuilding is fun (at least to me) as it gives you equipment nobody else has, as well as equipment that may never be commercially released. The hardest part is finding great detailed drawings…the bigger the model the more the details show (or the more the lack of detail shows)

Regards,
Brian

I modeled in “O” scale for years and in “O” the track gage is too wide (scales out to 5’ gage), so now I’ve swung to too narrow 1/29…neither one is noticable to me until you compare a photo side by side with the prototype.

#9

Welcome James!
Good first post!!
:slight_smile:

#10
Brian Briggs said:
Scratchbuilding is fun (at least to me) as it gives you equipment nobody else has
;)
#11

First of all, you guys are awesome.

Thank you for all of the help everyone!

Ken, Bart, Joh, Brian - That’s GREAT news about being able to run the motorized trucks straight from the AirWire system - thank you guys so much for the detailed info - my concerns were perfectly put at ease. (When I saw USA trains’ catalog pages advertising “plug and play” for AirWire, I was worried that it would be difficult to do it otherwise).

David Russell - man, your scratchbuilding work is astounding - you were the guy I was referring to. When I first googled “large scale scratchbuilding”, your stuff showed up, which is was first got me seriously thinking about scratchbuilding in the first place. Unbelievable work!!! Your amtrak passenger cars nearly made me fall out of my chair.

Craig, all of your points are well taken, and I TOTALLY understand your approach. I am sooo tempted to go that way. It just so happens that there’s a guy in town with a killer outdoor layout, and odds are I’ll really be wanting to take equipment over to his house.

Going the “Actual 1/29 56.5in gauge” route reminds me of the old LA county fairgrounds layout. (It was #3 gauge - BIG). Could anyone else in the world bring trains over there and run them? Maybe one or two other people. Did that make it any less awesome? Heck no.

Points are also taken regarding 1/32 looking “small” compared to 1/29. However, that comment could be made at any size. 1/29 is small compared to 1/24 Standard Gauge, which is tiny compared to 7-1/2" gauge trains, etc. That extra “bigness” is definitely cool, but I may have to go 1/32 due to the whole slightly “narrow gauge” thing. I will happily admit that I’m a weirdo when it comes to this kind of thing - Like Craig, apparently : )

In no way am I trying to pick the “best way” to do it - just the “best way for me”, considering my own personal quirks : ) And, I really, really want to decide One time, and one time only, considering I have ZERO dollars spent on large scale so far.

(Another benefit I see of 1/32 is that I could buy scale vehicles and figures, etc. more easily, in the event that I create an indoor switching layout, etc. and go all out with scenery, etc. - like the guy I’ve seen on the forums called “Uncle Bob” - again, unbelievably awesome work - he was also featured in Kalmbach’s “Great Model Railroads 2012”.)

-James

#12

I guess 1:32 is ok, if you can tolerate that “slightly wide gauge thing.”

Did I say that out loud?

:slight_smile:

#13
Steve Featherkile said:
I guess 1:32 is ok, if you can tolerate that "slightly wide gauge thing."

Did I say that out loud?

:slight_smile:


Yep! But the 1/32 people say 1/32 is the ‘right’ scale for 45mm gauge… :stuck_out_tongue:

#14

When I do the math, I get:

1/29 “Scale” standard gauge width: 49.49mm
1/32 “Scale” standard gauge width: 44.85mm

45mm is 90.9% of the correct gauge for 1/29 scale (about 9% too narrow).
45mm is 100.3% of the correct size for 1/32 scale (about .3% too wide).

So, yes, it’s “wide” for 1/32, by about .006inches (about two pieces of notebook paper thick) : )

I told you I’m weird!

#15
James Cuevas said:
When I do the math, I get:

1/29 “Scale” standard gauge width: 49.49mm
1/32 “Scale” standard gauge width: 44.85mm

45mm is 90.9% of the correct gauge for 1/29 scale (about 9% too narrow).
45mm is 100.3% of the correct size for 1/32 scale (about .3% too wide).

So, yes, it’s “wide” for 1/32, by about .006inches (about two pieces of notebook paper thick) : )

I told you I’m weird!


James,

Welcome to LSC!

As you have just found, some are not particularly “fluent” with math - it is possible that the math teacher booked off a lot of sick days, even though I doubt it. :wink:

There are some who figure that when the scale seems right, it is right. It’s all about impressions and some are more impressionable than others.

My recommendation: check out what is available in 1:32 vis a vis 1:29, check the price points and also check out what is available in those scales when it comes to structures, vehicles, figures and all the other accessories.

Then decide. :wink: :smiley:

I forgot to mention; I model Swiss Meter gauge (1:22.5) which figures out to a 1.2% error. That is a slightly larger error than in 1:32. :wink: :smiley: