Large Scale Central

Scale fidelity or artistry?

Howdy
This question has been running around on a couple groups that I read, and I figured Id post it here, too.

When you model your RR, are you going for a complete, to-scale, nothing-out-of-scale experience, or are you more into the ‘art’ of model railroading, where the look is more important than the exactness. Or something in between?

Myself, I fall in between. I like a wide range of prototypes, but they’re all NG, so what my RR is loosely based on is a shortline-style bridge RR, that has a variety of on and off layout industries. I have 1900’s style wood cars, up to more modern steel cars. Steam and diesel. But dont think I’ve thrown ‘reality’ out the window, I DONT have Dash-9s doubleheading with Shays, but Ive gone for a more “if steam had lasted another 15 years in mainline service” what-if, which would give the shortlines a longer lease on life with their steam motive power.

How about you?

HI Bob,

Good question.
The KVRwy is a tourist railroad built on the grounds of an old area coal field. Much like the EBT, we mainly haul tourists these days, but have found there is a small amount of industry service that we can provide. Its all for fun and we try to keep everything looking like it belongs with each other. Scale is always questioned, but loosely adhered to because of the size of rose bushes and other plantings in the shared garden/railroad space.

I have to say I lean more towards artistry. As my sig shows, I have my own road so that throws prototype modelling out of the window from the start. But I do like to somewhat keep to reasonable prototype practices…and model what pleases my eyes. I have no problem with my Alco DL535, a narrow guage dismal pulling standard guage cars. There seems to be nothing that screams…“I’m out of scale” to the eye. But overall on my indoor layout I either run my 50’s era cars and locomotives, or I run my fantasy ultra modern NG equipment…this based on the concept that NG continued in the US and modernized. It will be running the DL535s for deisels and also have electrics for passenger service and some freight…all European locomotives that have been “Americanized”. Don’t ask to see the "Americanized deisels…yet as that is still in the conceptual stage…but 2 of 3 locomotives are “on property”.

I guess my whole philosophy is to create a world more as I see it should be rather than the mess we live in…:confused:

Warren

I guess by default I’m in the artistry category, since I can’t afford $1500 to $2500 locomotives. It’s more for the fun of it than anything. Long as it looks good to me, I’m happy…:wink:

ART!

My main goal has been to build an “interpretation” or an “abstraction” of a RR as I do not have a few spare acres to build a beleivable “scale” experience like Marty Cozad or Jens Bang have with thier layouts. So my layouts will be compressed “impressionistic” portrayals of a small RR that will fit into the avalable space I have left to me.

My loco’s are intended to be creative interpretations yet beleiveble as “could have been” engines of a small tram line. Same with my rolling stock, buildings and scenery.

So like my model RR heros, John Allen and Malcomn Furlow (now there’s a pair of interesting bookends!), I hope to create something artfull, whimsical, impressionistic, yet totally beleiveble as a RR.

I buy some , make some , run some . I just like playing trains . I do have the odd yearning for true to scale . I try that in all the forms of modelling that I do , but if an off the shelf job takes my fancy , I get it .
Whatever , I get some damn good fun out of my models .

Mike

Hi,

since Bob probably found the idea for this thread yesterday in England, after I published a working link, you might as well check the state of the current discussion there.
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=1794&highlight=artistry

If the theme is discussed elsewhere as well, please link it up to this thread. There are only very few participants discussing here anyway.

Have Fun

Juergen Zirner

Bob, Much closer to the Scale side than the Whimsical side, but in LS: all within reason. In my case that means: Model one prototype: RhB upper Albula line. Adhere to an era i.e. 1969-75 (benefit = since the selection is not overwhelming, I won’t be overwhelmed at the store, either :wink: :slight_smile: ) Get things to look right (to my eye), without getting bogged down in the minutiae. Since the RhB always runs reasonably clean equipment, I don’t need to “muck-up everything” with layers of grunge. Also means that I rather have several typical items, instead of going for a wild assortment of the strictly “exotic”; (benefit = as above). Keeping the running distance between stations at least more realistic than having the engine in one station and the last car still in the previous one. Running shorter trains sure helps! Capture the essence of the area: landscape adjacent to track, structures, buildings etc. etc. Landscape is always the toughest on a mountain railway - building 10’000ft mountains just isn’t practical. And of course: less is more. For instance I won’t need hordes of people standing around at all the stations. Same goes for road vehicles etc. But just in case I need all the overcrowding and “let’s add a few more things” pictures one day, I have bought a camel. Stands to reason if everything, including the kitchen sink, has been added, the only thing that would be missing is a camel! :wink: :smiley: :wink: BTW I have never been intrigued by Malcom Furlow’s modelling, as a matter of fact I always pity the poor inhabitants of his towns. Darn, tripping over trash and garbage just about anywhere you’d want to get to. :wink: :wink:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Bob,… BTW I have never been intrigued by Malcom Furlow’s modelling, as a matter of fact I always pity the poor inhabitants of his towns. Darn, tripping over trash and garbage just about anywhere you’d want to get to. :wink: :wink:

Hans, you should take a run in the back door of Philly. Trash everywhere. Gangs would throw a tire between cars to bounce around and seperate the glad hands. Then throw rocks at you while they robbed the trailers. Not all railroads are pristine Alps rail. I do respect both types of railroads, but for me I like to run what I like. Some people need disipline. Give me liberty!

I too mix art and scale. On the one hand, I’m trying to duplicate reality in miniature. this requires a degree of scale fidelity. On the other hand, there are many factors which necessitate compromise. The limits of available space, the difficulties involved in modeling outdoors, budget concerns, and my own vision of “what might have been” all affect the level of “true scale” realism that can be achieved.

So I’m modeling a fictional narrow gauge railroad loosely based on several prototypes, both standard and narrow gauge. This gives me the freedom to model what I want without worrying too much about whether or not it’s strictly prototypical. Mostly, I just want it to look good.

Bob McCown said:
Howdy When you model your RR, are you going for a complete, to-scale, nothing-out-of-scale experience, or are you more into the 'art' of model railroading, where the look is more important than the exactness. Or something in between?
I run Thomas the Tank Engine. 'Nuff said :D

My layout is a parody of small town, 40s-50s central states, America. The layout includes details reflecting family history as well as my version of that little world. I enjoy electrical detailing on the equipment, and building the layout. The attached link is for a PDF file of the Wichita Eagle newspaper article about the layout, promoting our recent Garden Trains Tour [658 guests visited my layout].
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/pimanjc/WichitaEagle-060909-GardenTour-Jcarter.pdf
All of the track work shown in various threads recently, has been completed since the Garden Tour.
Jim Carter

Marc Bergmueller said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Bob,… BTW I have never been intrigued by Malcom Furlow’s modelling, as a matter of fact I always pity the poor inhabitants of his towns. Darn, tripping over trash and garbage just about anywhere you’d want to get to. :wink: :wink:

Hans, you should take a run in the back door of Philly. Trash everywhere. Gangs would throw a tire between cars to bounce around and seperate the glad hands. Then throw rocks at you while they robbed the trailers. Not all railroads are pristine Alps rail. I do respect both types of railroads, but for me I like to run what I like. Some people need disipline. Give me liberty!

Marc, But the Furlow scenes play in the Old West! There never was enough to throw away in those days and people were pretty meticulous and neat. Or at least that’s what I gather from historic pictures; I really doubt that they scrubbed the towns prior to the “Picture Man” arriving. :wink: :slight_smile: I’m familiar with the trash all over the place in modern days. Fastforward to 1971: My first trip to Vancouver, BC; I gas up in Sault St. Marie, Ont and ask the gas jockey where the trash cans are to empty my ashtray - would you believe I used to smoke!? “Don’t worry about it, dump it on the pavement. Everyone else does!” Hmmm, what a concept! OTOH whatever floats your boat, afterall it is called “poetic” licence. :smiley: :smiley: And graffiti cars are big sellers. :wink: :smiley:

Chris Vernell said:
Bob McCown said:
Howdy When you model your RR, are you going for a complete, to-scale, nothing-out-of-scale experience, or are you more into the 'art' of model railroading, where the look is more important than the exactness. Or something in between?
I run Thomas the Tank Engine. 'Nuff said :D
Yeah, right. And "James" is rolling his eyes furiously! ;) :)

The Port Orford Coast is about half artistic interpretation and half caricature. I like to follow prototype practices generally while creating my own little world blended with a bit of fun. I guess growing up in the Norman Rockwell era and being influenced early on by Frank Ellison (RR ops) and John Allen helped to make me the “monster” I am. :smiley:

I can 't beleivethe flippiant replies I’m seeing here! This here railroad business is SERIOUS NOW! I DEMAND that each and everyone of you refrain from this artsy fartsy BS and get down to Aluminum tracks! No wonder people say"Oh you play with trains?" or “How Cute!” With Namby Pamby Piddly Poofs like y’all CLAIMING to be railroaders!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

Hi, Of course, no real layout should be without at least one camel. Bought one years ago. It is looking out of the left window of the loco shed under construction.:

I would love to see Mueller´s camel together with one of his finished LS models. . I admire Mr. Malcolm Furlows work very much. At least, he actually built a few LS layouts and explaines how and why. The LGB exibition layout he built many years ago for the Nuremberg Toy Fair is still kept in the LGB showroom. He built annother one for a children´s clinic, I think somewhere in Texas. Maybe Austin or Dallas. I think, he is a legend amongst layout and model builders. He tought me a lot. For me, it was the first Large Scaler who succeeded in convincing vertical layout designing in a John Allen tradition. Have Fun Juergen Zirner

In 1984 I was invited to visit Malcolm Furlow and saw first hand his famed H0n3 layout.

Well you could call it a layout I suppose. I fact it was a beautifully constructed group of vignettes that were not actually connected together to form a cohesive layout.
At that time it did not actually operate as a layout and I was left with the impression it was built purely for effect. A superb effect nonetheless.
Careful camera angles gave the impression of oneness.

I could of course be wrong, but I believe Malcolm took a partially constructed (for MR) LS layout to a Narrow Gauge Convention. Again it was superbly done, but, it also did not operate.

I have not seen any of his other layouts so I cannot comment.

Back to the question…

Neither I suppose. I certainly don’t have any scale fidelity running 1:20.3 to 1:29 and everything in between. What does Ric call that, 1:21.4 ??

And I can’t call much of what I’ve done Artistry either. Perhaps a few areas here and there, but so far all I really have is roadbed and track. Not much art in that.

So Bart has hit the nail on the head… I play with trains :smiley:

JR

TonyWalsham said:
In 1984 I was invited to visit Malcolm Furlow and saw first hand his famed H0n3 layout.

Well you could call it a layout I suppose. I fact it was a beautifully constructed group of vignettes that were not actually connected together to form a cohesive layout.
At that time it did not actually operate as a layout and I was left with the impression it was built purely for effect. A superb effect nonetheless.
Careful camera angles gave the impression of oneness.

I could of course be wrong, but I believe Malcolm took a partially constructed (for MR) LS layout to a Narrow Gauge Convention. Again it was superbly done, but, it also did not operate.

I have not seen any of his other layouts so I cannot comment.


Tony,

Inside the safe circles of several operating groups “back East” we used to refer to Malcolm Furlow as “The Schmalz King”. :wink: :slight_smile:

But there never was any doubt that there’s money to be made with “Extreme Modeling” of that kind. The logic and laws of physics defying “features” are a big draw with a certain crowd, especially if those “models” and “layouts” are superbly overdone. Of course “superbly overdone” is a lot more than just slapping on yet one more round of gooky rust in the most unlikely places or drowning “the whole works” in more “please give me a really dismal day” shades of gray.

There was an observant comment a while back in a Swiss magazine (EA) regarding the state of affairs on the DB (Deutsche Bahn = German Railway), which quipped the DB could quite conceivably stand for “Dschungel Bahn” (jungle railway) on account of the overgrown conditions along and on still operating lines.
In reality it is of course just one more example of Life imitating Art. :wink: :slight_smile: