Large Scale Central

Rust-Oleum Paints

This just in from Rust-Oleum technical support.

Second coat to be applied within about 20 minutes or it will crinkle, the solvents will react with the enamel term used was "fries the bottom layer".

Advice was to wait 7 days then give the paint a light sand to get rid of the crinkle then-re spray.

As I have stripped it back down to the base plastic I will try the 20 minute re coat, to do another colour next to it I will have to wait 7 days to avoid the crinkle at the overlap.

Or try something else might go to the paint store down the road and have a chat to them.

I have onee can with the fancy trigger operated top…boy is that a pain to use. You have to squeeze with all your strength to get a spray. Often kinda splattery too!

I have also had cans clog internally, no way to clear them! Dead!

I hate them but can get decent results at least some times. I also spray some into their cap and use a brush for ttouch ups or detail bits.

Eric I agree they are a POS the trigger is awful

My problem with 20 minutes is I’m still painting the first coat … awk!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)

Seriously, if you pull the spray top out, at the base of the stem, you will see a slot. I have had some success clearing that slot and making it a little wider. I don’t know why it works, but it does.

Lou Luczu said:

Seriously, if you pull the spray top out, at the base of the stem, you will see a slot. I have had some success clearing that slot and making it a little wider. I don’t know why it works, but it does.

That’s worth a look, thanks.

Lately I have just been pulling the tops and dropping them in a jar of Mineral Spirits when not in use.

I have cleaned the slot, cleaned the nozzles, heated the cans in warm water, and the darn Rustoleum rattle cans still clog on me. For me the clog is internal to the can. For one colour I really wanted, I ended up opening the can, outside with goggles on, and used the paint in my airbrush.

I have come to realize that some things work differently at my house, then it does for other people. Some folks have very good luck with Rustoleum, but I haven’t.

“It’s not you, it’s them” - just saw this involving Rustoleum 2X over at The Rocketry Forum, https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/paint-job-gone-wrong.159049/#post-1990879

I went to a local paint shop and talked to the bloke there and told him my problem he said that all enamel paints will do that is they are not fully “cured” he suggested I may more success if I left the paint to cure for at least a week or maybe more.

Evidently paint can be dry to touch but underneath the surface it is still wet and it is that layer which reacts with the new coat.

One interesting thing the bloke showed me is a device that turns a small bottle into a spray pack, it has refills of propellant and extra bottles, the initial setup was around $35. The paint shop can mix any colour for me to put in the bottles.

https://preval.com/all-products/
I am seriously considering it as compared to the 2 Rust-Oleum which cost me $33 it may be a good buy and because I only do small paint jobs anyway so this “touchup” system may be an answer.

The other option I have is to use artist acrylics dissolved in lacquer thinner ans use my airbrush, I did this on a loco and the paint job is well over 5 years old and showing no sign of deterioration.

End result Rust-Oleum is I consider utter crap and I will never use it again.

GAP said:

The other option I have is to use artist acrylics dissolved in lacquer thinner ans use my airbrush, I did this on a loco and the paint job is well over 5 years old and showing no sign of deterioration.

That’s a thing I’ve not thought of trying. But I can say that those acrylics are known to be a pretty durable polymer.

Article talks about far more than this aspect, but it may be of special use for someone here,

Do artists still work in freezing garrets? If so, oils will work better. The temperature at which the paint is applied is more of a concern with acrylics than with oils. Acrylic house paints should not be used when the temperature is below about 5 oC (about 40 oF) or when the temperature is expected to fall below this level for 4 to 8 hours after the paint was applied. The reason is that strong, coherent films cannot form at low temperatures, and even if the film later becomes warm, it will never recover. Acrylic artist paints are similar. To be on the safe side, they should be used only at temperatures above 10 oC (about 50 oF), and the painting should be kept above this temperature for several days after it has dried. [8] Acrylics painted and dried under cold conditions may look OK, but the films will be less durable and more vulnerable to cracking. Oils, on the other hand can be used at freezing temperatures or below.

https://www.justpaint.org/aspects-of-longevity-of-oil-and-acrylic-artist-paints/

Forrest Scott Wood said:

GAP said:

The other option I have is to use artist acrylics dissolved in lacquer thinner ans use my airbrush, I did this on a loco and the paint job is well over 5 years old and showing no sign of deterioration.

That’s a thing I’ve not thought of trying. But I can say that those acrylics are known to be a pretty durable polymer.

Article talks about far more than this aspect, but it may be of special use for someone here,

Do artists still work in freezing garrets? If so, oils will work better. The temperature at which the paint is applied is more of a concern with acrylics than with oils. Acrylic house paints should not be used when the temperature is below about 5 oC (about 40 oF) or when the temperature is expected to fall below this level for 4 to 8 hours after the paint was applied. The reason is that strong, coherent films cannot form at low temperatures, and even if the film later becomes warm, it will never recover. Acrylic artist paints are similar. To be on the safe side, they should be used only at temperatures above 10 oC (about 50 oF), and the painting should be kept above this temperature for several days after it has dried. [8] Acrylics painted and dried under cold conditions may look OK, but the films will be less durable and more vulnerable to cracking. Oils, on the other hand can be used at freezing temperatures or below.

https://www.justpaint.org/aspects-of-longevity-of-oil-and-acrylic-artist-paints/

Low temperature is not an issue here, mid winter temps coldest daytime is usually around 22C on average and coldest overnight would be around 10C.

Being a model railroader for some 30 plus years I have always used enamel or lacquer paints, mainly Scale Coat, or Floquil. These paint companies have gone out of business in the past years, mainly due to EPA rules and regulations. Water base paints for models is pretty much junk and just don’t give the finish I want on my models. Today I still spray many of my models with enamel/lacquer paints and use an airbrush, but these paints are getting harder to find as the EPA is also having Testors and other paint manufactures due away with these paints. One paint I have been using is the Model Masters by Testors in the spray can, sold at Hobby Lobby and hobby shop, sells for around $6.00 per can, these paint spray very well and one can is enough for one engine, or rolling stock. I also use the paint sold at auto parts stores, but most colors are going to be colors for autos, these paints do also spray very well out of the can. I’m also using the Krylon from Home Depot, the cheap stuff, not the higher price cans for outside use, or special use, remember were painting plastic train engines here, not outdoor furniture, I do use the Krylon primers with good results. I would like to say one thing here, I feel many are painting their engine, etc. wrong when it comes to coats of paint, I usually primer my engines, parts, etc. to be painted, but not always is primer needed, many times I paint right on the plastic parts, yes you should test the paint on another plastic part, or on an underside and make sure it will not craze the plastic. Next I do tape off each color to be painted, this way I’m not adding too much paint to the model, too much paint is just looking for a cracking, or crazing problem, plus too much paint hides detail. Last I would like to say about coats of paint, what’s with paint one day with first coats and then a second day with more paint, do you think you get a better job, no you just get more build up with paint that is not need, there are models, not your patio chairs. Here is how I apply paint, I spray a light cover coat on the model and let set for a minute or two, look at how it covered, yes it will have thin sports, I now apply the second coat, a little wetter then the first coat, let it set for another two, or three minutes and look at the model in sunlight, I do paint outside most of the time on non winds days. At this point I am either happy with the coverage, or it gets another coat, most of the time I have got it covered in two coats. If your waiting for the first coat to dry and then repainting, your just adding paint that is not needed and covering up detail, I can tell you, more paint is not better. This way all my coats of paint are drying all at one time and the paint shrinks as it would in one drying coat. I don’t know everything about painting models, but painting model for 30 plus years I got a pretty good idea of what works and how to get the best job I can and having to redue a paint job is no fun. I’m a retired body shop mgr. for a large DFW auto dealer and after 35 at one dealership I have a good idea on painting. Remember, paint is an art and you learn from experience, if I cab answer any question, I would be glad to help with your painting needs.

trainman

Although not having the advantage of having been an auto body shop manager I have been modeling for over 65 years and mostly use rattle cans. When I started pretty much all that was available was Testors small glass bottles and paint brushes but for plastic models and HO trains it worked great of course that was back when I had steady hands and all the time in the world. Moving on trains got bigger and time became valuable so hence rattle cans came into my life. My preferred paint is Krylon being as it is fast drying, virtually run free, and a plethora of colors available, found to spray very even and with a good mist spray, just remember I’m speaking of yesterday’s paint as they too have changed to meet the new day. Most paints now come with primer in them which is not ideal for models as it makes the paint thicker and hides detail. Also most spray cans have changed their form of paint pick up so one can not turn the can upside down and spray to clear the nozzle, often winds up with a half full can becoming useless. I have found that rustoleum to be thick, sprays like a fire hose and runs easily, Ace seems to be better and supposedly made by Krylon, Lowes was carrying a Valspar ultra mist that was very good but lately have been unable to find. You can find some great spray cans at automotive supply shops but most are lacquer base which reacts with plastic and usually come in small cans. I have used air brushes before but now pretty much just weather with it being as my hands are no longer rock steady. Important things I have found in my journey is don’t spray lacquer base over oil base, if it says wait 2 days between coats, do so, don’t use paint with primer included and never paint on a humid day, and light coats are better than heavy ones, just my thoughts, Bill

Bill Barnwell said:

… My preferred paint is Krylon being as it is fast drying, virtually run free, and a plethora of colors available, found to spray very even and with a good mist spray, …

John Lenheiser said:

I’m a retired body shop mgr. for a large DFW auto dealer and after 35 at one dealership I have a good idea on painting. Remember, paint is an art and you learn from experience, if I cab answer any question, I would be glad to help with your painting needs.

trainman

Yes, Paint is an art …can you explain why scale coat (rattle cans) cure in the cold but not the heat? I learned from experience on that one!

“Paint is an art” - You sure got that right. I started in the late 60’s as a teenager painting cars in an oil change bay of a Texaco station near Buffalo, NY. My boss was a real hack and he loved enamel auto paint. My first spray job was a “Rangoon Red” mustang and half way through the side panels it began to run. My boss said “just keep laying it on until it’s all one big run”. I did and it sagged like crazy right off the bottom of the rocker panels. Boss said “no worries, when it dries we’ll cut it off” and by gum, we did (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

I was a Krylon fan for years and I prefer even the newer formula Krylon over other brands, but I’ve not tried them all. Years ago my mentor at work brought in his High Volume Low Pressure (HVLP) spray system. His gun was buggered, but it was easy to use when it worked. I convinced my boss to purchase an Earlex HVLP system and have been using it for 3 or 4 years now and love it. It will spray acrylics, but I much prefer oil based paints for the finer droplets and ease of clean up. Paint thinner works MUCH better on oil based paint than soap & water on acrylics.

Oil based paints are hard to find, but still out there. My preferred oil based paint is Rustoleum. Many of their colors can be thinned with Acetone for a nice quick flash time. If it doesn’t say on the label to use Acetone, I thin with VM&P Naptha which flashes faster then generic paint thinner. I can’t get pure Mineral Spirits any more, only Paint Thinner made with mineral spirits & who knows what else. I do wear a professional NOSH Respirator when painting using anything other than water based acrylics.

And after over 50 years, I still consider myself an amateur.

Rooster said:

John Lenheiser said:

I’m a retired body shop mgr. for a large DFW auto dealer and after 35 at one dealership I have a good idea on painting. Remember, paint is an art and you learn from experience, if I cab answer any question, I would be glad to help with your painting needs.

trainman

Yes, Paint is an art …can you explain why scale coat (rattle cans) cure in the cold but not the heat? I learned from experience on that one!

I’ve never used Scale Coat in a spray can, only used it in an airbrush, don’t know about your experiences with cold weather and drying times, I only paint in warn weather conditions and low humidity.

trainman

GAP said:

I have purchase 2 spray pack cans of Rust-Oleum 2X paint to use on a bash that I am doing.

I sprayed the first coat and then waited for 24 hours before spraying the second coat but when I did the paint crinkled and looked like it had been put in paint stripper.

I washed what I was spraying with mineral turpentine and then with soap and water which I let dry thoroughly (all day sitting in the sun) then sprayed it the next morning.

The can mentions either respraying within 1 hour or waiting for 48 hours before applying a clear coat but nothing about just re coating.

Has anybody else come across this problem or am I doing something wrong?

My first try with Rust-Oleum 2X …the texture is there because I left the dust on (as I usually do) . She was christened and put too sea a year ago…http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/29063/cvrr-electric-motor-car-15?page=1

The stuff don’t like heavy coats even if you think you are putting it on lightly. Scale coat rattle can was the same.

Back to the original posters question even after re-reading twice as recommended.

Rooster said:

GAP said:

I have purchase 2 spray pack cans of Rust-Oleum 2X paint to use on a bash that I am doing.

I sprayed the first coat and then waited for 24 hours before spraying the second coat but when I did the paint crinkled and looked like it had been put in paint stripper.

I washed what I was spraying with mineral turpentine and then with soap and water which I let dry thoroughly (all day sitting in the sun) then sprayed it the next morning.

The can mentions either respraying within 1 hour or waiting for 48 hours before applying a clear coat but nothing about just re coating.

Has anybody else come across this problem or am I doing something wrong?

Just wanted to complement you on a very nicely done model, too bad you had a paint mess up, it happens to all of us, myself several times. I use spray rattle cans paint on most of my G scale modeling. I usually paint as I said in a previous post all my painting is done at one time, first a light cover coat and then a wet coat and no need for another coat in a day or so, remember you will in most cases be either have to put on a clear coat for decaling and then a dull coat for final to get your model to a nice finished look. So when it comes to paint the coat I want to be the best is the final dullcoat, it can and does cover up many imperfection on your model. Once again, great job, did that start out as a LGB combine.

trainman

My first try with Rust-Oleum 2X …the texture is there because I left the dust on (as I usually do) . She was christened and put too sea a year ago…http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/29063/cvrr-electric-motor-car-15?page=1

The stuff don’t like heavy coats even if you think you are putting it on lightly. Scale coat rattle can was the same.