Since Bachmann is coming out with the eggliners, then does that mean that Bachmann doesn’t have to buy (and sell) the NOS that Aristo didn’t pay for? That was part of what was killing Scott, was those containers of stock he had to take, whether he wanted them or not. Or, did he take them all, and so there aren’t any left over there in China?
Just wondering.
David I was told by a source I consider very reliable that these new Eggliners are supposed to have a new drive block, likely the same as the Speeders get, we won’t know for certain until someone gets one and had a looksie inside. This person also told me the main reason Kader is releasing them is purely financial, they sell well and given they are currently only offered in holiday schemes should suggest at which market they are aiming for (non-serious mass as possible market iows Thomas crowd) Kader wants income. I hope they also release the tight circle track AC did for the Eggies.
I would be VERY surprised if the eggliner has a different motor block, why design something new for a low cost loco if the old one was fine?
This is not a big ticket item and I find it very hard to believe that someone would fix something that is not broke.
The K-LINE speeder, recently sold by USAT is 1:32, and is way too small for the eggliner, size and wheelbase and wheel diameter.
Kader owns the molds, and Bachmann. Kader, not Bachmann will decide who can buy what. Clearly Kader can DIRECT Bachmann to do whatever it wants.
Also, it’s not clear what “excess” is left of the old Aristo stuff Lewis ordered and never paid for.
It will be fun to see what transpires.
Greg
Greg, to design a new block doesn’t make sense. But to use a less expensive (read cheaper) block from say the Bachmann trolley would make sense, if they are trying to pinch pennies. And who isn’t?
I thought the PCCs were the excess. I wasn’t sure/didn’t know, if there was more excess or not.
Now, for the 64,000 dollar question. Would Kader have Bachmann sell the Aristo track, when Bachmann has its own line of track? That don’t make sense to me. But, some of us out here want the Aristo Stainless track, to go with the Aristo stainless we already have.
Ahh, track was never made by Kader as far as I know… I am sure the rails were not. The ties are injection molded, but I heard that they were not made at Kader either.
The LGB suit that almost bankrupted Aristo was an influence, i.e. Aristo had the molds for the ties themselves, the rail is rolled and put through dies. In China, entire cities are devoted to one type of manufacture, so it is “easy” to shop within those cities for who will do the metalwork the cheapest.
Another corollary is Crest Electronics, made a separate company early on, again around the LGB suit, Aristo learned the danger of putting all the eggs in one basket, and Korea was the major location of manufacture for some time, as well as China. The lead engineer Mr. Song is Korean.
So the track manufacture is independent of Kader as far as we cal all determine, which also explains how there was a new track shipment from Polks GeneratioNext when the only locos/rolling stock he could get was old stock.
Again, this is the best we can piece together from multiple sources, I could be wrong here.
By the the way, the eggliner motor block is tough and reasonably good. The Bachmann trolley and the Aristo PCC motor blocks are pretty much crap, very small cheap motors. Also the wheel diameters are pretty small, so I cannot see how they are candidates for the eggliner.
But, I could be wrong, so let’s see what happens. The best result is that they sell ex-Aristo product, and get some success and sell some more.
Greg
David,
Aristo Track, Rail Joiners and Wheels were made by a different supplier, they were not manufactured by KADER. With that being said, I would hope Bachmann would make more stainless track as I am very glad that when I started, I switched to Stainless.
Sorry, did not see Greg’s post, before I posted, redundant info.
Nico, I was not aware Bachmann made stainless track, was I asleep at the switch? (when you said more, it implies they made it at some time).
Or did you mean you hope that Bachmann would take up the manufacture of SS LS track (for the first time)?
Thanks, Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Ahh, track was never made by Kader as far as I know… I am sure the rails were not. The ties are injection molded, but I heard that they were not made at Kader either.
The LGB suit that almost bankrupted Aristo was an influence, i.e. Aristo had the molds for the ties themselves, the rail is rolled and put through dies. In China, entire cities are devoted to one type of manufacture, so it is “easy” to shop within those cities for who will do the metalwork the cheapest.
Another corollary is Crest Electronics, made a separate company early on, again around the LGB suit, Aristo learned the danger of putting all the eggs in one basket, and Korea was the major location of manufacture for some time, as well as China. The lead engineer Mr. Song is Korean.
So the track manufacture is independent of Kader as far as we cal all determine, which also explains how there was a new track shipment from Polks GeneratioNext when the only locos/rolling stock he could get was old stock.
Again, this is the best we can piece together from multiple sources, I could be wrong here.
Greg, ah ha! Now it makes sense. See, I did not know that.
Well, I do hope that someone brings back that line, or something (in stainless) that closely matches that line. I do have 2 expansion plans that may happen someday…or may not, but it would be nice to have the choice.
By the the way, the eggliner motor block is tough and reasonably good. The Bachmann trolley and the Aristo PCC motor blocks are pretty much crap, very small cheap motors. Also the wheel diameters are pretty small, so I cannot see how they are candidates for the eggliner.
But, I could be wrong, so let’s see what happens. The best result is that they sell ex-Aristo product, and get some success and sell some more.
Greg
Greg, yes I agree. It would be nice if the motor block, and the whole FA/RS trucks, were available again. If Kader was smart, they would make the parts that sold and that people want. The see through roof-walks, lowered floors, trucks, couplers, power blocks…
Ok, I will go back to sleep now.
Sorry Dave, a few of my friends and I are “train junkies” and most of us have been beta testers or “insiders” with various manufacturers at one time or the other.
A further comment on parts, over the years Kader / Sanda Kan have shown they HATE to make parts. They only want to make parts during a production run. (The exceptions seem to be wheels, couplers, etc.).
Many companies just ordered more locos and pulled them apart for parts, it was less cost. One exception seems to be USAT, for years they had not only spares, but spares in colors. After years with on again off again parts availability with Aristo, my first call to Mike in USAT parts was, “do you have brake wheels for the box cars”, he says “sure, what color do you want”… After picking myself up from the floor I see that their philosophy was different, and eventually learned that Charles Ro had a much different relationship with the manufacturer than Lewis Polk did.
Greg
Greg, no need to be sorry, and I know that you (and others) beta tested a lot of stuff.
I was just saying that there is a market for spare Aristo parts, and Kader could make money with spare parts. But if their mindset is against making a bunch of parts then…I guess we are S.O.L.
It seems they do not make as much money as making cars or locos… that is what has been consistently reported from Lewis.
My personal contention is that the price of parts can be adjusted to make this viable, and run a large number of parts.
The feedback was, and again specifically from Lewis (you can find this on his forum) that he does not want to be a parts house, that there should not be an expectation to have parts on shelves. (This statement caused a huge amount of upset people).
So the other part of the equation is that selling locos and cars is pretty straightforward. But, having a sufficient quantity of parts available at all times comes down to the company’s commitment to customer service…
In Aristo’s case, they were selling at pretty low margins, so no “extra” money to keep a large parts inventory, and with pushback from Kader, well, the situation is known history.
Clearly USAT and Bachmann have a different (and better) commitment to customer service, i.e. parts.
Greg
I would hazard a guess that a more significant component to this spare parts dilemma is not the cost associated with their production but to their stocking issue. Imagine the number of parts that goes into these engines and then think about all of the tasks associated with warehousing, inventory control, order fulfillment, restocking, etc. They also need to consider which parts are likely to be ordered due to wear or breakage and which ones will probably never be requested. Considering the sheer number of parts and the size of the potential market it’s amazing that they even manufacture the initial engine, let alone maintain a reasonable level of inventory in spares.
Yep, you are reinforcing what I said. In addition, Lewis stated that he did not know ahead of time which parts would be most needed, so he stated it was often the second run of a loco when parts were ordered.
So the history was that there were NO parts for a new loco until a second run was made, this was often 2 years.
New locos were cannibalized until then. Often, it seems they got used to this method and just did not bother to try to order any parts.
Greg
Yes, even in the copier world its hard to know what parts one needs to have. But anyone with experience would know the likely candidates.
In the model train world that would be the fragile items like corner (stirrup) steps, brake-wheels, ladders and such. Wear items would be gears, gear housings (if they are plastic), power pick ups and such like that. Then there are most damaged items during a collision, like pilots, diesel plows, railings and such.
Then there are the other obvious parts one could sell like trucks, metal wheels and couplers.
Beyond that, I can see waiting to see what the demand is.
But shipping, cataloging, warehousing, inventorying, and picking and reshipping parts does cost money. But happy customers may return. Unhappy customers may not.
Greg Elmassian said:
Nico, I was not aware Bachmann made stainless track, was I asleep at the switch? (when you said more, it implies they made it at some time).
Or did you mean you hope that Bachmann would take up the manufacture of SS LS track (for the first time)?
Thanks, Greg
Yes Greg I meant the latter, I hoped they would take up manufacturing the SS LS track.