Is there a target weight for say, a 40ft boxcar in G gauge? To make it roll better, or stay on the track or whatever.
HO car kits always come with a flat steel plate to stick in the bottom, so I figure it must apply in G too… (Note, I have yet to buy a single freight car in G, I’m trying to roll my own for less cash–if that’s possible.)
Next question is, is there a source for just the trucks/wheels that I can put on scratchbuilt rolling stock?
Thanks,
Patrick
Patrick, I asked the same question about car weight when I started. The NMRA has recommended weights for other scales, but I have yet to find recommended weights for large scale.
As for trucks, yes there are trucks available for us scratch-builders. USA Trains sells trucks, as does some detail parts suppliers. I used to buy Aristocraft tracks, but they are no longer in business.
For some reason the Large Scale community has continually fought standards. The NMRA has pretty much given up on us. As such in the USA there really are none for cars or track. In Europe, the G1MRA ( http://www.g1mra.com/ ) has established track and wheel standards that many of us use.
As far as weight goes, lowering the Center of Gravity on cars with plastic wheels can be accomplished with the use of metal wheels. Bachmann and other brand cast wheels are generally lighter than USA Trains, Aristo and other machined wheels. Wheels alone may not be enough for very light cars. I have a scratch built wood flat that really needs more weight to successfully navigate switches. I am considering adding some lead under the deck. Most of my other stock is pretty heavy on it’s own and probably doesn’t need additional weight.
Once you add metal wheels and (or) cast trucks, there is enough weight on the bottom of a car for reliable tracking.
I, too, have found that I need to add weight (beyond just metal wheels) to scratchbuilt rolling stock made out of ply or coffee stirrers. I normally use the strip metal weights about 4 inches x1/2 x 1/4 which I have lying around after converting a Bachmann Lyn to battery. I don’t know how much each weighs, only a few ounces I suppose, but two of them under the deck seems to make a lot of difference
I agree with adding extra weight beyond just metal wheels. I have a few spring loaded turnouts. The extra weight in my rolling stock, mostly the field railway type, gives the car enough heft to push the points as the wheels move through them.
I find that weighting the car at least what the prototype weighed unloaded is necessary, but often about half loaded is good.
convert prototype weight to pounds… divide that number by your scale ratio 3 times (or by your scale cubed for you mathematically inclined).
Works pretty darn well on locos too.
Greg
I have a scratch-built boxcar and a string of 3 scratch-built passenger cars. They are the lightest cars I have. And I also run with spring switches. So far, just using the Bachmann metal wheels is enough for those cars to run reliably. Of course, I do follow the “rules” with the boxcar. It goes behind heavier cars, that way it doesn’t string-line nor get pushed off the rails in backing moves.
Many times, adding weight or “tweaking” the wheels and trucks is what some folks do to compensate for poor and uneven track. As long as the wheels are in gauge, and roll freely, and the cars all weigh a similar amount, then the train should operate just fine.
So the quick and dirty answer would be to take a production car that runs well, and add weight to your scratch-built cars until they weigh about the same. Try and keep the weight as low in the car as possible. That’s the best answer I can give.
When adding metal wheels, I find for weight there are 2 basic types.
LGB and some others have a metal rim on large plastic hubs.
USA trains and Bachmann have a solid metal wheel with a small plastic insulator at the axle and weigh a lot more than the metal rimmed wheels.
The heavier wheels work well outdoors on box cars in the wind. This is all I ever use in my cars.
Greg Elmassian said:
I find that weighting the car at least what the prototype weighed unloaded is necessary, but often about half loaded is good.
convert prototype weight to pounds… divide that number by your scale ratio 3 times (or by your scale cubed for you mathematically inclined).
Works pretty darn well on locos too.
Greg
I found an empty weight for a USRA single-sheathed boxcar, 49,000 lbs. Multiplying by (1/32)^3 gets me 1.5 lbs. Then I halve that number to get the optimum weight of 3/4 lb?
David Maynard said:
Patrick, I asked the same question about car weight when I started. The NMRA has recommended weights for other scales, but I have yet to find recommended weights for large scale.
As for trucks, yes there are trucks available for us scratch-builders. USA Trains sells trucks, as does some detail parts suppliers. I used to buy Aristocraft tracks, but they are no longer in business.
Thanks, I’ll check out USA Trains. Do you happen to know names of any of the detail suppliers?
Patrick,
The solution I have use quite successfully is as follows.
Replace plastic wheels with Bachmann wheels. They are solid wheels giving good weight, and are the most economical. They are not perfect, I find a toss an axle here and there because they are just out of true and cannot be fixed. Still cheaper than most of the alternatives.
Being as most of my rolling stock is Bachmann I will reference them, but the process is similar for other manufacturers as well. Most of the inexpensive trucks available are rigid from the manufacturer. I dis-assemble on side of the truck and slightly reduce all the dimensions of the post where the assembly screw goes in (making the assembly a bit sloppy), then re-assemble with the screw slightly loose. This allows a small amount of rock on that side of the truck effectively giving some equalization.
When re-assembling the truck I shim the axle centered in between the side frames with an ever so small bit of side play. Use a plastic friendly grease on the axle ends when assembling. Free rolling will also help with tracking.
When installing the trucks on the bolsters, I make up one bolster with side shims so the truck can only rotate on the screw, no side to side rock allowed (a few thousandths maybe). The other bolster is set up to allow side to side motion. This makes the car sit like a 3 legged stool. I will always sit true on the rail.
All of this is not to say I don’t add weight, I do but not often. However I usually don’t have to add much. The largest issue I have is with lighter cars in a pushing movement during switching operations.
Empty flats are the biggest culprits there. Those I go to HD or Lowes and purchase 1/4 square steel bar and add a piece in the center between the center sills.
As for purchasing parts for scratch building, Ozark Miniatures is probably the largest supplier at this moment. They purchased the Hartford Products line a while back who had a nice line of narrow gauge parts and trucks. I haven’t seen much product listed yet on the Ozark site and am patiently waiting for them to start the line back up. I can usually get USAT plastic trucks in either roller bearing or arch bar from RLD Hobbies (the advertise here). As I said, wheels I get from Bachmann. many of my other details I make my own.
Hope this helps and I haven’t muddied the waters too much.
Bob C.
I read somewhere that Hartford had started up again .
Mike Brit
Mike,
That is essentially true. The thumbnail story is something like this. Bob Hartford sold the business to a young couple. The business basically didn’t work for them. Bob bought the business back and re-started it, but not complete kits any longer, just parts and short kits. Bob has re-sold it to Ozark Miniatures who has somewhat brought the Hartford web presence back, but I am still waiting for the pricing pages to appear.
If I am off track (no pun intended) I welcome correction.
Bob C.
Glad to hear the Hartford line has been picked up by someone who will run with it. I seriously considered purchasing it from Bob when he first offered it up. Went as far as signing a non-disclosure and getting his financials and doing lots of market research. I’ve had second thoughts about not buying it, but my research at the time indicated the market was going bust and aging out. I guess the demise of Lewis & Co proved that.
Jon,
I sure wish you had picked it up. At least it would have gone to a serious contender. As for Lewis & Co, I have no doubt in my mind that there is way more to that story than will ever be known.
As I said above, I am waiting for Ozark to bring the line back. I need a couple sets of D&RGW trucks for starters.
Bob C.
1.5 pounds unloaded. You need the loaded weight to find an upper limit. Halfway between unloaded and loaded is what I said below.
I think the loaded capacity was 110,000 pounds… take half of that and add it to the unloaded weight, 49,000 plus 55,000 = 94,000, divided by the cube of 32 is 2.86 pounds, just about right.
Greg
Patrick Underwood said:
Greg Elmassian said:
I find that weighting the car at least what the prototype weighed unloaded is necessary, but often about half loaded is good.
convert prototype weight to pounds… divide that number by your scale ratio 3 times (or by your scale cubed for you mathematically inclined).
Works pretty darn well on locos too.
Greg
I found an empty weight for a USRA single-sheathed boxcar, 49,000 lbs. Multiplying by (1/32)^3 gets me 1.5 lbs. Then I halve that number to get the optimum weight of 3/4 lb?
It would be interesting to work out the scale power needed to pull the scale weight .
On the subject of running light wagons , it seems that if the centre of gravity is low down , there is less of a problem running them successfully .
I found this while running Hartford wagons , they being essentially light upper works and hefty lower end . I suppose that the c of g of a plastic body means more sway , lifting a wheel or two.
Bob’s comment above about making the bogies operate in roll at one end and pitch at the other is very important ; it keeps all wheels in contact with the track (unless your trackwork is really bad). This is essential when traversing pointwork .
Looking at the history of railways , you will find that the USA went in for flexible running gear–even on locos (bar frame as opposed to plate)–because the trackwork being laid over vast distances meant that a comparitively lower standard of trackwork was needed in order to get the track laid within time constraints . All things considered , they did a damn fine job of it because track maintenance costs are a formidable cost to rail companies , and a lot less rail stuff would be around now if the forward looking designers had not done the job the way they did .
That does not in any way give us an excuse for sloppy trackwork because scaling down the overall effects is impossible . But don’t let that spoil the fun . Unless of course you run at unrealistic high speeds in which case you shouldn’t be upset when your train is .
Whatever , I add weight as required , the paintwork needs looking after . So too does the scenery .
Mike Brit
Greg said “2.86 pounds, just about right.”
Aha, I see. I thought 3/4 lb seemed kinda low…
I consider the “optimum” weight of all my rolling stock as the weight that that particular piece of rolling stock needs to perform as well as it can on MY track work. 