Large Scale Central

ROAD TRIP!

General Discussion
#1

Kim has given her tentative approval to us taking a little drive in early November. Weather permitting, we’ll take the digital cameras, extra batteries, the dogs, and start at Kiskikimettas Jct. down near New Kensington and follow the East bank of the Allegheny River north… until we get bored, tired, or to Oil City… For those who don’t understand why I’m bothering to go there or to tell you this - This is where the real Allegheny Valley RR once ran.

Since much of it has been abandoned and some parts turned into a trail, I’m curious to see what is left. Besides, it will give you guys some RR prototype pictures to look at, even if you have to listen to me blather. There are about 40 towns and villages, 5 or 6 bridges (if they are still standing), and 3 or 4 tunnels that I know of between the South and North ends… So hopefully there will be something interesting to photograph along the way.

We may take side trips along the known spurs at Kiskikimettas, Big Sandy, and Foxburg, and try to find the original water level RoW above East Brady… Good thing Kim just likes going for car rides in the country, lol.

#2

Here I thought you were going to make the OPs Session. If you cross the Mississippi River, you’ve gone to far.

#3

Going to have to go far enough as is. It took 3 days and jumping between modern and 1895 maps to compile a fairly complete list of all the places the AV served.

The Allegheny Valley from North to South (& West to East)
Venango Co-
Oil City - connection with New York Central, South Oil City - (branch to McClintock to Collins to Horse Creek to Cranberry), Franklin Station, Cochran, East Sandy Station -(Sandy Creek Branch to East Sandy to Van), Coal City/Fosters, Brandon, Kennerdell -Tunnel-, Scrubgrass, Roberts Run, Saint George, Rockland -Tunnel-, Blacks, Dotter, Emlenton

Clarion Co -
Foxburg Upper connection with B&O ex Pittsburgh & Western, Perryville, Dutch Hill, Pollock, West Monterrey, Upper Hillville, abandoned water level main to Sarah Furnace to Catfish to Riverview to East Brady, Red Bank - Low Grade Division East Main South

Armstrong Co-
Cosmus, Rimer(ton), Hooks, Grays Eddy, Mahoning - connection with Pittsburg and Shawmut, Templeton, Pearts Eddy, Mosgrove (Lower connection with B&O), Ensford(sp?), Kittanning, Garretts Run, Manorville, Ford City, Rosston, Loganport, Kelly Station, Godfrey, Alladin, White Rock, Donley, Shenley, Kiskikimenetas Jct. -Connection with West Penn RR

Allegheny Co.-
Ingleside, Braeburn, Arnold, New Kensington, Parnassus, Logans Ferry, Johnston, Hulton, Verona - branch to Ink Works to Millton, Coleman, Brilliam, Candless?
Pittsburgh - connection with the Pennsylvania RR

Low Grade Division-
Clarion Co-
Red Bank, Lawsonham - Sligo branch to Rimersburg to Huey (new reconnect to Cherry Run to Upper Hillsville) to Carlsville to Sligo, Rock Run, New Bethlehem, Fairmount, Hawthorne,

Jefferson Co -
Maysville, Heathville, Summerville, Dowlingville, Brookville, Bellport Mills, Erdice, Fuller, Carriers Mills, Reynoldsville Station, Sherwood, Falls Creek

Clearfield Co -
DuBois Station, Sabula -Tunnel-, Payne, Winterburn, Pennfield, Tyler,

Elk Co -
Weedville, Caledonia, Medix, Bennezette, Mt Pleasant, Grant, Dents Run,

Cameron Co -
Miller, Mix Run, Driftwood and interchange with Erie

It’s going to be a big job even without going below Kiski and the Low Grade Division (maybe next spring?) The Railroad Station Historical Society shows stations still standing at Shenley Kittanning Sarah Furnace, Franklin Sta, Reno, Brookville, Reynoldsville Sta,

#4

Sounds like a fun trip. Cant wait to see what you find. Make sure you post pictures when you get back. We have a few old lines left in my area from the sussex RR to the lackawana RR, some are trails now others nature is reclaiming. Im sure you will find neat things along the way.

#5

Well, we got a couple of miles done today it gives you a small taste anyway… http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/AV1.html

#6

Good stuff so far Mik. Cant wait to see the rest.

#7

Really great looking trail and website. Thanks for sharing. The website is very informative with a great bunch of maps and interesting pictures. I guess it has only left me with one question. WHAT STATE IS THIS IN?

#8
Ric Golding said:
WHAT STATE IS THIS IN?
The state of Confusion?

Western Pennsyltucky, land of bigots and rednecks (but vote for me anyway!), according to the late, but not particularly lamented, US Rep Jack Murtha.

I’m sorry for assuming folks knew where Pittsburgh, the Allegheny River, and the oil boom region of the late 1800s was.

#9

Mik,

Truly, my question was serious, I didn’t know what area of the USA you were talking about and yet, I also enjoy exploring old railroads in Pennsylvania. I guess my geography isn’t that great, does the Allegheny River only run in one state? I knew your general area, but was lost on which state or states you were traveling in. I experience the same problem with the B&O historical list, when they speak of the “Original Main” and mean some place back east, but we have B&O mainline tracks just 1 block from our house and they were laid in 1857. I went back and saw your original post and saw the reference to the Pittsburgh & Western, but once again did not connect that with just one state. As for the “Oil Boom Region”, that would fit, Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma and even 19 miles east of us in Salem, Illinois. No harm was meant in my question.

#10

And I thought us weaterners were the only ones that wouldn’t know where it was !It’s sure a nice time of year to see that area.

#11

Ric, seriously my fault, I ASSumed, but I probably should have said PeeU (oops PA) to start with… Now, the B&O ‘old main’ was mostly in Maryland, headed from Baltmo towards the Ohio River… If my grandpa hadn’t been a B&O man through and through (and hated Chessie for ruining her) I probably wouldn’t know that either.

Doug, it was prettier before that early lake cyclonic storm came through and knocked down most of the leaves.

Kim says we might cover from Kiski to Ford City tomorrow, if the weather co-operates. Below Kiski is mostly the modern AVR.
http://www.lundsten.dk/railfan_pa/avr/index.html

#12

Oh, and as for oil booms… the places on your list are copy cats :stuck_out_tongue: The original was started by a feller named Drake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Drake

#13

Good links, thanks! And yes, I knew the history of the “Quaker State Oil”. I know not always that company.

#14
Mik said:
Oh, and as for oil booms.... the places on your list are copy cats :P The original was started by a feller named Drake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Drake
I didnt get a chance to read the above link but if my history is correct the first oil well was done in northwest PA forget the town name. I know whenever that question gets asked people tend to say or think TX. I always enjoyed PA histor as well as NJ. A lot of things occured between the two states.
#15

Shawn - "I always enjoyed PA histor as well as NJ. A lot of things occured between the two states. "

Yeah, pretty interesting and you have to think context. When they said “go west young man”, they were talking about Ohio and Indiana. I’m always intrigued that Illinois was settled west to east, instead of east to west because of the rivers.

#16

Part 2 Garvers Ferry to Ford City - http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/AV2.html

#17

Just for giggles I played with Google Earth… the RoW is torn up from below Rosston the whole way to Aladdin. Where Logansport is on the 1896 map there are a few of what look to be vacation houses. I also looked at the Kiskiminetis Junction, it is just beyond the bridge on page 2. The old West Penn RR line is still intact, but the AV just ends, replaced by what looks like an ATV trail to Garvers Ferry.

Below Garvers Ferry Google Earth shows a paved road flanked by big fancy houses on one side and a golf course on the other where the RoW should be… so much for being railbanked.
I recorded a couple bits but don’t know how to share them.

#18

Cool Pictures.

#19

After a long weary winter, we picked up the chase again this morning - at the other end of the line

http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/AV3.html

And I found some vintage pix of Garvers Ferry/Butler Junction during the Pennsy era, so that page was updated as well
http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/AV2.html

#20

Mik,

Big picture question. Can you pan out on a google map to give an overview of where you are exploring?