When our club displays at shows, I like to keep a bag of rivets handy, in case someone complains that there should be 46 rivets on the side of my tender, rather than the 45 that are there.
“Here ya go, count these and leave me alone.”
On the other side of the coin, ya gotta admit some folks who don’t care about rivets CAN be pretty insufferably condescending to those who worry about scale fidelity too. 
I usually settle for ‘plausible’… to some I waste a lot of time on justification of stuff through the increasingly intricate and detailed backstory… to others I cut too many corners from reality… Me, I’m just enjoying the ride, wherever it ends up.
Yeah Mik I know what you mean by the other end, run into that alot in the Tinplate crowd, not surprisingly.
I always say “there is no wrong way to build a model railway” if what your doing matches your expectations and goals and you are happy with the results.
Sure you can improve, given time you will, maybe by the time you’ve built your 3 or 4th layout you will be every bit as skilled as the dread RC is at accuracy and detail, but if you beleive some of the nutty things If heard RCs state in the past in my HO days, then your expected to have produced a fully proto accurate layout with correct siding lenths all dated to Aug 12, 1954 at Pigsknuckle Juntion of the Texas & Pacific in Hogwash County right down to the correct corned beef sandwich with mustard on station master Jones desk, all crammed onto your first time attempt at layout building on a 4x8 plywood sheet, otherwise its all just rubbish to them. well thats just not very much fun. I stopped paying attention to that lot long ago.
I was running an Aristocraft SD 45, decorated in Great Northern colors, road number 400, with “Hustle Muscle” emblazoned on its’ side.
Someone took me to task for that, telling me with a smirk that GN never had that slogan.
The look on his face was priceless when his buddy informed him of the truth.
:lol:
Count me out…I only count “Guard Rails”…!!!
You people don’t understand…counting is all part of a plot by the IRS to tax our rivets! The new Dept. of Homeland Rivet & Bolt Collections will have responsibility and…guard rails are next! 
Fred Mills said:In that case, easy job at my RR, Phawther. The total would be..........Zero, nada, zip. :) :) :)
Count me out....I only count "Guard Rails".....!!!
On the other hand, these guys do come up with some cool information.
img413.imageshack.us/img413/5561/roughz.jpg
huge image, so go there yerselves.
Richard Smith said:
You people don’t understand…counting is all part of a plot by the IRS to tax our rivets! The new Dept. of Homeland Rivet & Bolt Collections will have responsibility and…guard rails are next!
Say it ain’t so Joe!
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/Shortybear/The%20Railroad/July2007008.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/Shortybear/The%20Railroad/July2007004.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/Shortybear/march2010001.jpg)
My RR is not designed to appeal to “train” people. As part of the landscape, it is designed to appeal to the average person.
Ralph
Right now, in this hobby, ANY application to outdoor railroading makes sense – at least to those who deviate from anyone else’s perception.
Case in point: Our layout of 400’ has no (gasp) buldings or model railroading structures of any kind. Why? because of the trees and excessive (did I say excessive?) leaves and continual junk falling, I didn’t want to mess with the cleaning among the plants and structures. Plants are enough. So we have a succulent garden full of trains over a large “L” shaped corner of the yard. All track is laid on cement block with a pea gravel/motor mix on top for the roadbed. All of it can be walked on for servicing any errant weeds that crop up.
Okay, we need folk to enter the hobby. I’ve found this layout gives some newbies “permission” to have an outdoor layout with only track 'n plants.
Kudos to all of us – and our creativity!
Wendell
Wendell,
Sounds like a “Garden Railroad”, I don’t see a problem.
My layout bears not the slightest nod to ‘reality’, and I could care less. Most of my toy trains are total fakes, although a few of them run by boiling water in a highly unlikely fashion.
Some them really do look good enough to be the real thing seen through the wrong end of a telescope, but the five hundred foot high wooden fence in the background gives the game away.
Remember one of the definitions of reality - ‘Reality is what you presently perceive as the most believable of all unlikely scenarios possible.’
tac, not really here at all.
The Counters don’t bother me near as much as the “G” scaler"s affixed with Lionelitus does.
I love rivets. They do really have a great appeal when seen on locomotives, tenders and large pieces of machinery. But that’s as far as it goes: I have never considered counting them. lol
How we run our trains is akin to religion in that it’s far more effective simply to lead by example than to knock on peoples’ doors and tell them they need to convert. I’m an avowed rivet counter when it comes to modeling, as the research that goes into a model is–in my opinion–half the fun of building the model. I don’t tell people they need to build models, but if they’re so inclined, I’ll gladly help them with advice and techniques. Likewise, I can appreciate the pure fun and joy of running “toy” trains around the floor with their roofs off, jam-packed full of Star Wars figures. That’s pretty much all my daughter cares about, and who am I to tell her she’s wrong? I did the same thing when I was her age. If i can’t tell her she’s “wrong,” then I can’t tell anyone else they are, either.
The reality is that “toy” trains running around the floor will invite far more people into the hobby than fine models ever will. Fine models require a certain level of skill and artistry that the average person looking for a hobby doesn’t believe they possess. Such models seem unattainable to them, so there’s no point in trying. But anyone can put track on the floor and watch trains go around. No skill required–just pure fun and imagination. If, over time, some of these individuals see fine models and decide that’s the direction they want to go in the hobby, there are plenty to help them along the journey. Reaching in and dragging them over, though, does no one any good.
Later,
K
Now, here’s a different take: Rivet Counters MAY, I say may, influence the manufacturers to create realistic products. If the expectation of the consumer is “realism” at “realistic (read “realism”) prices,” then we are speaking of initial purchase criteria not application on the home layout. I’m all for realistic products if the price represents the product quality. For example: Thomas products are not realistic to anything other than to themselves. Children can really tell the difference between a “fake” Thomas and the T.V. version --especially in how the passenger cars look and are ordered! Don’t put out some LGB cars behind a loco and declare its train time! With a fake Thomas you have a kid version of a rivet counter response in spades. All of this comes from our campus child development center “G” railroad.
So what is a “realistic” loco? What is the price of the item if it is not prototypical? Likely, the biggest conflict is any pretension of a loco, or rolling stock, being offered as prototypical when it is not.
If those who proclaim realism as a criteria in the hobby – from purchase to operations, great! Realism at the point of purchase is likely what most of us would agree to and encourage.
Wendell
Wendell Hanks said:Yup, I can attest to that :P
Children can really tell the difference between a "fake" Thomas and the T.V. version --especially in how the passenger cars look and are ordered!
Hey , I thought that this thread was going to be fun , but dammit , some of you got serious .
Mind you , I wasn’t too happy myself when “Large Scale” suddenly turned into “Outdoor Railways” . They are surely not mutually inclusive ? As opposed to the more acceptable mutually exclusive .
I have never been a rivet counter since someone offered to show me where the golden rivet was . (On HMS Belfast).That would be 60 years ago if you are worried that you have no idea what the golden rivet engenders .
And don’t ask daddy . He might go a bit red .
Mike,
I just looked up Golden Rivet as a British nautical term. My, my, you brits certainly were an imaginative bunch, weren’t you? When I was in the U.S. Navy, a hundred or so years ago, we sent our young Seamen to the engine room for a bucket of steam. Or in my case in the electronics departments, we sent our kids out for several Wavelengths. Theses trips were for initiation only, no other ulterior motive.