Large Scale Central

Rivet Counters

General Discussion
#1

One of my passions in life is to modify Bachmann Anniversary locomotives to ‘create’ a new loco type. I model freelance 1/22.5 scale. Apart from expensive imported models, the only way to model narrow-gauge American is to ‘freelance’. Available models are hardly prototypically accurate as regards scale and in general are manufacturer repaints of existing rolling stock or locomotives. The ET&WNC/Tweetsie version of the Annie is the only scaled version of that loco. Modellors will happily run the numerous roadname repaints of that loco and no one cares as they are simply nice toys. Similiarly the LGB models are adaptations of the prototype. The Aristo/Delton are excellent, but 1/24 scale.

I am currently constructing eight locomotives, all based on the Bachmann Annie model. The Annie is very easy to work on and modify and is relatively cheap and user friendly as regards glue compatibility. It is basic modelling to chop up the chassis frame or body and make something not available commercially. I enjoy doing this and at the end of this year will have a roundhouse full of unique locomotives all my own work. Of course none will actually have a prototype. Even so, they will all be believeable and possible. There will be a mallet, a mountain, a pacific, 2 off mastodons (eight-drivered, not the ten-drivered versions), a 10-wheeler, an atlantic variant and a 4-4-0. These will all have a family look due basing them on the Annie body.

Now to the business at hand. Since starting my building phase, I have been met with criticism of my choice of manufacturer and the type of model being built. I welcome any positive criticism or prototypical information, but it seems that the advent of ready to run 1/20.3 scale has made experts of those who run this scale and they expect that all others should adapt this scale philosophy, no matter what scale that we run. I certainly would like tro see some of the scratchbuilding work of these modellors. My experience is that those who criticise one’s choices are usually armchair modellors with little else better to do. I will continue to build my roster of locomotives and will delight in seeing them run, knowing that I built them and that they are unique. The armchair modellors can sit back in their comfy old chairs, drinking beer and running their entirely ‘store purchased ready to run’ models, while I am out running my unique, freelance, ownerbuilt models on my railroad.

#2
Tim Brien said:
One of my passions in life is to modify Bachmann Anniversary locomotives to 'create' a new loco type. I model freelance 1/22.5 scale. Apart from expensive imported models, the only way to model narrow-gauge American is to 'freelance'. Available models are hardly prototypically accurate as regards scale and in general are manufacturer repaints of existing rolling stock or locomotives. The ET&WNC/Tweetsie version of the Annie is the only scaled version of that loco. Modellors will happily run the numerous roadname repaints of that loco and no one cares as they are simply nice toys. Similiarly the LGB models are adaptations of the prototype. The Aristo/Delton are excellent, but 1/24 scale.

I am currently constructing eight locomotives, all based on the Bachmann Annie model. The Annie is very easy to work on and modify and is relatively cheap and user friendly as regards glue compatibility. It is basic modelling to chop up the chassis frame or body and make something not available commercially. I enjoy doing this and at the end of this year will have a roundhouse full of unique locomotives all my own work. Of course none will actually have a prototype. Even so, they will all be believeable and possible. There will be a mallet, a mountain, a pacific, 2 off mastodons (eight-drivered, not the ten-drivered versions), a 10-wheeler, an atlantic variant and a 4-4-0. These will all have a family look due basing them on the Annie body.

Now to the business at hand. Since starting my building phase, I have been met with criticism of my choice of manufacturer and the type of model being built. I welcome any positive criticism or prototypical information, but it seems that the advent of ready to run 1/20.3 scale has made experts of those who run this scale and they expect that all others should adapt this scale philosophy, no matter what scale that we run. I certainly would like tro see some of the scratchbuilding work of these modellors. My experience is that those who criticise one’s choices are usually armchair modellors with little else better to do. I will continue to build my roster of locomotives and will delight in seeing them run, knowing that I built them and that they are unique. The armchair modellors can sit back in their comfy old chairs, drinking beer and running their entirely ‘store purchased ready to run’ models, while I am out running my unique, freelance, ownerbuilt models on my railroad.


Tim, :wink:

Soooooooo what’s the problem? Chances are you have your own railway name, a unique numbering scheme etc. etc.

And to count all the rivets would take too long in any case … if you serve beer that is. :slight_smile: :wink: :slight_smile: “Hic … I dink me missed one, better start over … hic!”

:wink: :smiley: :wink:

#3

At-a-boy Tim , you sure told them for sure !
Run em if ya got em !

#4

I have run into that many, many times, and not just in large scale. My response for over 50 years has been “SCREW 'EM!” I have 2 and 3 rail “0”, eschew Kadees like the plague, and am criticized for it. SCREW 'EM! I am resporing a whole bunch of half-zero stuff, dating back to at least 1941. I am using original non RP-25 wheelsets, and Mantua brass hook-and-loops, just because it pisses them off. I have a ScaleCraft 2-rail “0” NYC Hudson. First 2-rail “0” engine I kept. Was at a monthly meet several years ago, at the “break” we are all down drinking coffee and eating leftover cake (the host’s wife made wedding cakes) and we noticed one fellow was absent. About 15-20 minutes later, down he comes, and announces “Your Hudson only has 953 rivets on the tender, while the original had 956. When are you going to fix it?” Let me just share, that this engine is sand-cast bronze. It is VERY heavy. I considered throwing it at him, but realized it might just kill him outright, so refrained. SCREW 'EM! I will tell you that I and several others in my immediate area really enjoy taking a Bachmann 4-6-0 and modifying it to the point that nobody recognizes it for what it is. Like my Carson and Colorado #9, with whaleback tender. Or this:

#5

In Australia, we have the ‘tall poppy’ syndrome. The purpose of this is to cut down any who stand out in a crowd, basically establishing a status quo to keep everyone in line. Criticising simply because one explores outside of the norm, would have condemmed neolithic man from exploring outside his cave. Sometimes I think that while technology develops, man’s brain is still oriented to the glow of the cooking fires in caves, thousands of years ago, fearing to venture outside to experience the unknown. It is only those who tread outside the well-trodden path that succeed (and are condemmed by their peers as radicals for doing so).

#6

Ah, yes.
In our country, we call them “liberals” and “greenies”.

You can’t mess with your Federally Emission Controlled Vehicles.
No experimenting, no improving.
Some states (and some who countries) slap you down hard if you do.

One of the automotive test parameters in this state is C02.
Has to be HIGH.
C0 low, HC low.
If your C02 isn’t high enough, you fail.
If you’ve tweaked it to get everything about zero, improving the emission of ANY greenhouse gasses, you fail.

Morons.

Of course, they are always in the right…
That’s why I drive pre-emission, non-regulated vehicles.

#7

Well Tim I guess you would already know that my answer to them would be to show them this, saying…

“jump on this and spin”

#8

Hi Tim, Good choice of locomotive to bash into something that won’t be seen on anothers railroad. The Bachmann “Annie” is a reliable runner and like you said, has almost endless possibilities for creating one-off non-prototype locos. I have several, in fact all of my motive power is Bachmann and the 4-6-0 was used as one of my first bashing projects. Here is a photo of the first , new scratchbuilt cab with a shortened smokebox, plus some add on details to give it a “Colorado” look.

Regards Wayne

#9

Wayne,
the Bachmann Annie is just so versatile. I would not even give a second thought to taking the Dremel out and a little surgery. On the other hand I would never take a LGB product and modify it (apart from a Rio Grande gondola that I made into a pipe gondola). That is simply me. I collect LGB (never run it) and bash and run Bachmann. Criticising someone’s enjoyment in this hobby is counterproductive, making me consider that maybe sharing my thoughts (and dreams) was at an end.

      Rivet counters want everything perfectly scaled and yet will power their beloved model with an electric motor or run on non-prototypically profiled rail height.  They are prepared to compromise their own enjoyment of the hobby,  yet want to stifle the enjoyment of others,  that do not match their expectations.
#10

The hardest part was taking the hacksaw to an LGB the first time. Now it’s easy. My two original 2018D’s sure don’t look like it anymore.

#11

And here I am, just getting the hang of how to “Count Rivets”, and you guys tell me it isn’t the correct thing to do. This is after I gave up counting money, and gave it all away.
What in hell should I do now ?
Fr.Fred

#12

There is a basic problem with Ferd and counting rivets.
I have a “reliable source” that informs me that after two bheers, you lose count anyway.

#13

Sheesh, I find that bashing is one of the great levelers. That plastic stuff cuts more or less the same, there’s always some adhesive/solvent which will stick this to that. And the heritage is not that easy to determine - short of a DNA test - once things are finished.

Reluctant to cut xxx or xxxx or even xxxxx? If what one has in mind fits better than the original, fire up the “whatever”.

Dave, the guy who counted all those rivets: Not enough beer, not enough beer.

Besides: :“You must be kidding? Right? I counted them and believe me the correct number is there, you just missed a few!” :wink: :slight_smile:

#14

When I go to the various shows, I carry a bag of rivets.

Whenever someone gets too obstreperous, I hand him the bag and tell him to go enjoy himself, count them and bring me back the tally, just be sure to wash his hands afterwards.

Almost always they look as if they have been slapped.

Tim, cut away, enjoy yourself. Just be sure you wash your hands afterwards. :lol:

madwolf

#15

There is nothing inherently wrong in rivet counting, as in my opinion, it makes a toy, a scale model. The problem occurs in that ‘rivet counters’ have a tendency to be pedantic. What they demand of themselves, they demand of others. It is like the old saying ‘absolute power corrupts absolutely’. A rivet counter would derive as much pleasure from the research as from the execution of his model. I simply like to build ‘toys’. I start with an idea in my head, ideas that have accumulated over time. This is my research. I am not very good at ‘googling’, so no matter how much I narrow a google search, I find that the search engine finds more obscure links for me to follow, with the result that I derive no information, but know everything else not connected to the selected search topic.

Rivet counting is a personal obsession and should be kept personal. I admire and respect their work, but in reality, much of their work finishes up on display, not on the rails. Ready to run is one facet of this hobby, but in my opinion a modellor is not a modellor until he actually builds something.

#16

Curmudgeon said:
Ah, yes. In our country, we call them “liberals” and “greenies”. Morons. Of course, they are always in the right…

As a proud card carrying, almost bleeding heart liberal, to you Sir I say

The C & A Railway, home to the one and only Bachmann bashed Dunkirk

-Brian

#17

brian donovan said:
As a proud card carrying, almost bleeding heart liberal, to you Sir I say

-Brian

Was that really necessary, Brian? BTW, nice bash.

#18

In the US it was not uncommon for steam era railroads to build their own locomotives. Also most steam locomotives, by the time they reached their end of life were not the same locomotive that came out of the shop originally. I recall reading about one locomotive in particular that by the time it was scrapped after 50 years of service, the only thing on the whole locomotive that was original was the builder’s plates. So, Tim, since you model your own freelanced railroad…everything you build is prototypical.

Now, where are the pictures of your latest creation…:smiley:

#19

brian donovan said:

Curmudgeon said:
Ah, yes. In our country, we call them “liberals” and “greenies”. Morons. Of course, they are always in the right…

As a proud card carrying, almost bleeding heart liberal, to you Sir I say

The C & A Railway, home to the one and only Bachmann bashed Dunkirk

-Brian

Hehehe Well, way back in college, I was called “the Bolshivek” for my interest in Russian art and architecture of the post-revolutionalry period, Constructivism it was called, and for my interest in the history of the revolution, but now I’m just a regular old fashioned cynical jaded democrat.

Models for the Revolution! :smiley:

#20

Ignore the detractors. It’s your railroad, your model and your hobby.

Of course, if their hobby is rivet counting, don’t be one of their detractors.