Large Scale Central

Resistance soldering for track

Tools and Tips
#1

Has anyone tried to use a resistance soldering rig for soldering large scale track together? ( end of rail to end of rail) Or would I be better off making jumper wires that are small and on the bottom of the rail web so as to be out of sight? The section I’m working on will be indoors so there is no chance of heat expansion or contraction, the only thing showing from the side will be a nut bolt casting for the fishplates.

                                                                                          Thanks Again;

                                                                                                         Smokebox
#2

Rob

Butt-soldering track would take MEGA power, I have a mega-power rig but I wouldn’t attempt that, cross sections are too large for that. Jumper wires have two advantages

a) you can allow for expansion/contraction of the rail in the joiner

b) easy to do reliably without a MEGA soldering iron.

As noted in another thread I drill a small hole in the foot of the rail, thread the twirled and tinned wire through, then twirl the end of the wire around the section that leads to the hole, solder. The smaller cross section of the foot by the hole lets the solder flow properly without large wattage, the through the hole connection prevents mechanical and thermal forces playing havoc under any conditions.

Note: make the jumper loops large enough to prevent strain; clean the rail well where you solder!

#3

Ok,

                     I just got off of the phone with the folks at American Beauty and their tec rep informs me that the # 105507 or 509 rigs at 1100 whats has enough power to join (a butt weld) code 205 rail together after the two have been tinned.


       This thing is a monster at 1100 watts but can be dialed down to about 100 if you desire. So if you desire something that will tackel the big stuff and also the little stuff this is the rig for you!!
#4

Rob,

What did they mention about Code332? :wink: :slight_smile: And did they mention anything about expansion and contraction influencing the durability of the butt joint? :wink: :slight_smile:

#5

A butt joint like that would be really stressed during cold/hot temperature swings. Jumper wires are much more durable with their flexibility. And they can be removed and put back on with ease when you need to replace track sections.

Jon.

#6

Hey everyone;

             Well I talked with the tec fellow at american beauty (resistance soldering tools) and he informed me that "IF"  the section of rail were to be used indoors where there would not be heat and cold expansion and contraction and that there should not be a problem. They are using some of their systems to build auto parts like starters with no problems.
I even mentioned the size of the rail in inches (height x width at the different areas of the rail ) that I wanted to butt weld together and he informed me there would not be a problem, and the ever insistant claim of being able to dial down the amount of heat so as to be able to work on smaller items.
The bottom line, 1 grand when it is all said and done. So generally 1 hundred bucks or so per watt, and that was for a 1100 watt system so yes the mega power rigs are what is required. I just can not justify that when compairing railclamps or jumper wires that take a normal soldering rig to make.
 I just thought that it would be nice to have ribon rail on the pike just like on the real modern lines, I'm figuring that the ribbon will be 3 feet long and have a clamp on the end vrs. being welded like what is happening on todays railways.
 But if you take a moment to think about it then the clack'it'itty clack is a very nice sound to hear as you listen to your trains run versus the sound of nothing or the sound of not having the cash in the bank account while your watching your trains run about the pike!!


                                                                                                                  Smokebox
#7

Hello again;

   The conversation never went as large as code 332 we stayed down in the lighter size rail.


                                                                                                Smokebox
#8

Yep, typical case of “the devil is in the details”!

BTW I built my rig from surplus parts, probably added up to $60. But I sprung the dough for the AB soldering tweezers, looked at a friend’s and decided that building those was not cost effective. They work nicely for assembling catenary in the smaller scales and all those other fine, small items that have a tendency to be obstinate.
Oh yeah, the same rig is also used for Hot-Wire styrofoam cutting, it’s like slicing butter with a hot knife. Made some special pre-formed wireshapes for different jobs in the smaller scales.

#9

You should post an artical on how to make one as the price it just to high to buy one, since you built yours that is, I would surely be glued to the information if you could share it with out having to give up super top secret info that is!! OR is that modelers liscence??

                                                                                                                                 LOL

                                                                                                                               Smokebox
#10

Hi Rob, No top secret info :smiley: :smiley:

(http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/F-PIX/Resol01.jpg)

(http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/F-PIX/Resol02.jpg)

(http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/F-PIX/Resol03.jpg)

Somewhere I have a schematic, too, if I can find it. But the gist of it: very large 120/6V transformer, foot actuated switch on primary side, dimmer switch to regulate voltage on primary side, circuit breaker on primary side. Heavy duty wiring (stove wiring) on secondary side, twist to lock plugs and sockets, HD alligator clip, HD home-made electrode holder (I’m using the same graphite electrodes as used in EDM machining). Now as soon as I find that schematic I’ll post it.

#11

OK, here’s the schematic. Use at your own risk! :wink: It’s not that I’m worried about the design, I’m usually more worried about how people execute wiring jobs (Yes, there is a whole book hidden in that statement!). I have seen smoke, smoke and more smoke and there wasn’t a cigar in the neighbourhood!!!

(http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/F-PIX/Res-solderDiagram01.jpg)

BTW the wattage on this rig is small enough that I can still sleep at night, :slight_smile: :wink: it also won’t require the ventilated MEGA enclosure that houses my rig. :wink: :smiley:

#12

Just a question? Why are so many people saying “butt weld”, this is not welding, it’s soldering.

Welding is normally using all the same metal, and melting points of the metals used are pretty close.

Soldering is using very low temp “solder”, low temp melting point as compared to what you are soldering.

Brazing is sort of in between, usually melting a brass compound onto steel.

Actual welding of the rail would be much stronger than soldering. Solder is not used for mechanical connections, welding can be.

Just being picky, I guess.

Regards, Greg

#13

Greg,

I have a very flippant answer to your “Butt welding” question, but I’ll refrain. :wink: :slight_smile:

OTOH, precise language and terminology on the Internet? About as frequent as good spelling!?! :wink: :slight_smile:

#14

Hah! CA glue in someone’s shorts?

You made me laugh, which is good since I have to work today!

Regards, Greg

#15
Greg Elmassian said:
Just a question? Why are so many people saying "butt weld", this is not welding, it's soldering.

Welding is normally using all the same metal, and melting points of the metals used are pretty close.

Soldering is using very low temp “solder”, low temp melting point as compared to what you are soldering.

Brazing is sort of in between, usually melting a brass compound onto steel.

Actual welding of the rail would be much stronger than soldering. Solder is not used for mechanical connections, welding can be.

Just being picky, I guess.

Regards, Greg


Greg;

       That is very true, I would think that just as in spoken communications,  slang has slipped into my typing


                                                                                                                                          Smokebox
#16

Well I won a triton rig on evil bay for half what it would have been new, Now I just need a whole butt load of brass now for my bridge, It will be on a module for inside the house and be about 8-10 feet long, and about 2 or 3 feet deep. With storage space on the ends inside on the back for rolling stock .
I’m planning on a mid chest-shoulder height brass bridge, with latice work that spans a massive gorge (for indoors that is) then there will be catanary overhead wiring for the steeplecab I’m also planning on making ( might be a build artical on that)
I know you all are picture freaks so as to be able to see what everyone else is doing so there will be plenty of them for your enjoyment.

Can steel be used instead of brass with a resistance soldering rig? It is a 100 watt rig, just wondering as it is a whole lot cheaper than brass and this will be a new excersise with a resistance rig!!




                                                                                                                                  Smokebox
#17
Rob Wright said:
Well I won a triton rig on evil bay for half what it would have been new, Now I just need a whole butt load of brass now for my bridge, It will be on a module for inside the house and be about 8-10 feet long, and about 2 or 3 feet deep. With storage space on the ends inside on the back for rolling stock . I'm planning on a mid chest-shoulder height brass bridge, with latice work that spans a massive gorge (for indoors that is) then there will be catanary overhead wiring for the steeplecab I'm also planning on making ( might be a build artical on that) I know you all are picture freaks so as to be able to see what everyone else is doing so there will be plenty of them for your enjoyment. 
Can steel be used instead of brass with a resistance soldering rig? It is a 100 watt rig, just wondering as it is a whole lot cheaper than brass and this will be a new excersise with a resistance rig!!




                                                                                                                                  Smokebox</blockquote>

Rob,

Brass is soldered, steel is welded or brazed. Not the same league.

#18

Steel can be soldered, but it’s not real common, need to use acid flux.

Regards, Greg

#19
Greg Elmassian said:
Steel can be soldered, but it's not real common, need to use acid flux.

Regards, Greg


Yup - when tin work was popular it was very common for it to be soldered. I know tin isn’t exactly steel, but it has similar properties. I’ve soldered galvanized sheet metal, but I can’t remember what for. Used a torch, lost of plumbing flux and heavy solder.

#20

Actually what I should have said is will a resistancce rig generate enough heat to “silver solder” I was really tired after work yesterday (night shift) and with the combination of some spiced rum and the late hour it just didn’t come out the right way.
I don’t think my rig would do it but with some of the stronger rigs I wonder if it would work. Just wondering though as with the cost of those things ( I lost intrest talking to the sales rep after he sail "starting cost 1300 ) but then you need…

                                                                                                             Smokebox