Large Scale Central

Request for Sound R/C info

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

I just got off the phone with Navin at Aristo Craft requesting information on how long the additional wait will be for Revolution RX/TX packs. According to Navin, they are having difficulty with the chip sets and the goods are supposed to be on the Aristo Craft loading dock end of September. I have already had a pre-order paid in full including shipping since the end of April, with a promise of ‘end of June’. The installation will be in a Bachmann K27 with a Phoenix PB11 sound card. I am also looking into using the OVGRS optical chuff adapter board (I believe originally pioneered by Tony Walsham).

My question is: Does anyone have an AirWire installed with a Phoenix sound card (PB 11 would be even better)? And if so, what is your opinion. Was it easy to install, reliable, etc. Installation photos would be even more helpful. My K27 is a earlier one with only one weight pack in the boiler, leaving a good bit of space up front. I am also considering mounting the sound card and a speaker in the boiler.

Part of my request is to determine if I want to wait another 2 1/2 months for an Aristo Revolution. I generally don’t need all the functionallity of the Revolution, except at traveling shows where the kids enjoy the whistles/horns and bells, but almost all of my club members are running it and there is a wealth of knowledge for both installation and operation available. I am not particularly looking for recommendations, only experiences, opinions and maybe why you chose the system you chose.

Thanks in advance.

Bob C.

#2

Hello Bob.

You will find how to wire the chuff signal inverter information here: http://rcs-rc.com/PDF/ESC-DIAGv3/PRO-PnP-BKv3.pdf page # 1.

I daresay you could trace back the wiring into the loco but I wouldn’t if it was me.

#3

Tracing those wires has already been done. The connect to the motor board I replaced a couple of months ago. However, why do it the hard way if there is a simpler way. Thanks for the hookup Tony.

Bob C.

#4

Phoenix/Airwire specifically in the K-27, no, but I do have the Phoenix/Airwire combination in a few other locos. Very gery good, and very easy to hook up. Use the DCC output on the Airwire to control the Phoenix, and you’ll have lots of control over lots of sounds. With the K, if you’ve got the original socket board still installed, it should be fairly simple to identify which wires you need to send power to the lights, motor, chuff, etc. If I recall, it’s all labeled on the board. If you wanted to get real fancy, you could even hook the class lamps up to a lighting function output.

Later,

K

#5
Bob Cope said:
I just got off the phone with Navin at Aristo Craft requesting information on how long the additional wait will be for Revolution RX/TX packs. According to Navin, they are having difficulty with the chip sets and the goods are supposed to be on the Aristo Craft loading dock end of September....

…I am not particularly looking for recommendations, only experiences, opinions and maybe why you chose the system you chose.

Bob C.


First, I am disheartened to hear how long the delay still is. I don’t doubt it is costing Aristo a bundle in lost sales. I want another transmitter and have considered picking up a few more receivers. I think I will hold off on the receivers until I am certain the product will be available/survive.

Second, I went with the Revo solely because it was the ONLY system that stated it would work with both track/battery power. Perhaps an unpopular opinion but I see distinct advantages to both types of power systems and will use each when and where appropriate. I considered Airwire/others but their limitations were unacceptable. I do like the Airwire throttle control knob!

#6

I have airwire/phoenix in my K (old style as well). I gutted the loco for the install, added Rodney’s drive and haven’t looked back. Instead of the optical chuff I used a reed switch and magnets (didn’t know of a fix at the time) on the loco’s axle. I am very happy with it and have zero problems. I have also done airwire/phoenix installs on 3 other K-27’s and all three people have been very happy.

Terry

#7

Well gents, thank you very much for the input. Some time back one of our own LSC forum members was developing his own system. I looked him up but at this time it looks like he has had to shelve the project. Too bad, it looked like an economical alternative to Aristo. RLD has the Airwire in stock and is moving a bunch of them because Aristo is not available. Oh… the agrivatin’ watin’.

More pondering…

Bob C.

#8

Aiisto has had this problem from the day I started buying their stuff. They never anticipate demand and always run out of stock on popular products. This could be due to limited funds to invest in inventory, or being gun shy from product flops, They must loose hundreds of thousands in sales to their competitors because they run short of popular items and the long lead time to fill the pipeline from China. Maybe off-shore out-sourced production isn’t so smart after all.

#9

I agree Jon. However it’s not just Aristo. Aristo has yet to re issue their heavyweights. USA also has a issue with their streamliners. I have looked for a complete set of New Haven. They have been out of stock for some time. I think it sounds good to get product going until it takes off in popularity. To keep up with that popularity it takes capital and I think that is what the problem is. It’s a gamble… We as largescalers are never satisfied…

#10

Bob I have installed the Airwire with a Phoenix PB9. Talk to Robbie at RLD. He told me save my money and go with the PB9 since I’m running battery. The install was very simple once I had my bearings. The K was my first install. The board was clearly labeled so I was able to use the dummy board as a go between for my Airwire/Phoenix system and still keep all the factory wiring. Here is some pictures. The install isnt as clean as Tony’s but it works.

(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m489/jake3404/7-7-1120003.jpg)

This is a picture with just the coal load off and everything installed underneath.

(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m489/jake3404/7-7-1120002.jpg)

Here you see the tender top off and how I laid out the components. An update to this pic I added a second battery pack of the same size and dimensions on the opposite side of the one in this picture. The one battery was giving me just under 2 hrs of running time. The second batt has given me much longer (not sure how long havent really kept track, but long enough for me.)

(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m489/jake3404/7-7-1120001.jpg)

Closeup of the connections to the dummy board. I did this because I can convert back to the original if I want to by just unsoldering the wires off the board.

(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m489/jake3404/7-7-1120004.jpg)

Picture of where I installed the power switch and charge jack. I put the programming jack and volume switch on the bottom of the tender. Hope it helps.

#11

Hey Bob I have converted over 15 K-27’s to Airwire. When using Airwire you use the cheaper P-8 Phoenix board so that will save a little over the P-11. Also I remove the stock PC board (the one you replaced) and glue a sheet of .080 styrene to the bottom side of the top of the tender shell to mount the Airwire board to. By doing this, you have a box that is almost sealed for the speaker to work better.

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1194/dscf1162x.jpg)

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/7973/dscf1163r.jpg)

I use Cordless Renovations CR 1705 18.5 volt 5600 mah battery packs. To keep the Airwire board cool on hot days I drill a lot (over 100) holes in the coal load with a # 78 drill bit

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2926/dscf3280lb.jpg)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9185/dscf3281r.jpg)

With the coal load in place you do not see the holes. If you go with the the Airwire, let me know and I’ll walk you through the install. Rodney

#12

Rodney,

As I already have the PB=11 card, I will be going with that card. My intent is to maintain the original B’mann board if possible. Based on the conversations on the Prismatic Battery Pack thread, I will be mounting one, possibly two, fans for cooling.

The PC board I replaced is the one just below and behind the motor in the engine, not the main board in the tender. I have considered ‘gutting’ all the electronics, but then would have to deal with directional lighting, etc. I would also like to be able to use track power if necessary. The original board will provide for that.

Jake,

That looks like a very close match to what I was looking for. I obviously don’t have to ask if you are happy with it. :slight_smile:

Both installs look great. Now I have more contemplation…

Bob C.

#13

Bob
If you are tired of waiting for the Rev, go ahead and try Airewire and if you don’t like it, I’ll buy it from you.

I have one of the latest release that has die cast tender trucks that I have wired so I can also use track power with it. With Airwire you’ll need a bridge to keep the polarity correct and some caps to maintain a good continuous voltage between the bridge and the G-2 receiver.
If you go this way, I’ll help you wire it. I will look, but I think you can still use the stock battery-track switch on the board in the tender.
There is solder pads along the edge of the main board in the tender that you could solder everything to and do away with the dummy board. The only change to the stock wiring on the ones I do is that I install 4 magnets on the rear driver and wire a reed switch to the IR wires for the chuff pickup. I have had trouble of the stock IR chuff pickup failing after a lot of running so I don’t use them anymore.

The most common complaint that I hear with Aristo Rev is that you really don’t have 100% control of the headlight like you do with Airwire. The front and rear lights are off when the loco is sitting at idle.

If it were me, I would save the PB-11 for a Aristo install or sell it and get a P-8 for the Airwire.

Jake

Looks good and it works. That is all that matters.

Rodney

#14

Thanks for the photos guys looks good. I don’t think you will be disappointed with the Airwire. I like them.

#15

I also used a reed switch and two magnets attached to the tender wheels. I was told that it would be roughly 4 chuffs per revolution of the driver wheels. It seems to me that is true.

I got the wiring diagram for the wiring harness from Paul Norton’s article on the OVGRS website to boost the optical sensor to work with the phoenix card. I’ve gotten the parts to make it but havent done it yet.

Bob, Paul’s article is a good explanation of how to do it with good tips, even though he is installing a Revolution card.

#16

Rodney and Jake,

I ordered the Airwire from RLD Hobbies yesterday. Had to send an extra chunk of change, but waiting another who knows how long isn’t going to get it. If you look back at my original post, I had just spoken to Navin and been given the ‘story’ of what was the hold up. I got an email from a fellow club member telling of a post on the Aristo forum from Scott Polk telling a very different story. The post by Scott made up my mind.

Quoting another club member, 'Aristo Craft does not have a supply problem, they have a serious credibility problem." Talking to some of the spark jockies (electrical engineers for those not in the engineering profession) at work, they are skeptical as well about the now third delay in supply chain. Time will tell.

@Rodnet - Thanks for the offer to pick it up if I don’t like it. Looking at the Aristo alternative, I may standardize on Airwire. They can’t be that bad, or they would not still be in business. It will just take some getting used to another system, and who knows, I might even like it better. Now to decide on batteries. Based on some of the information posted here http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=17064&p=1 , I just may go Lithium.

@Jake - If you are triggering your sound card from reed switches, take a look at Tony’s post above. That looks a bunch simpler and less expensive than what the OVGRS has posted. Not that the OVGRS system is expensive.

@Tony - One question - are the two transistors mentioned, yours and the one spec’ed in the OVGRS article, equivalent functionally? And it would help if your diagram would label the emitter, collector and base leads on the transistor. I can never get it straight if the diagrams of the devices are looking top down or bottom up. And they never label them. (Can you tell I am electronically challenged? :slight_smile: )

Again, thanks for all the help.

Bob C.

#17

The view of the transistor is from the top imagining that the transistor is see through.
I can’t answer for the OVGRS circuit but the chances are it is functionally the same. I use a BC337 (NPN) open collector transistor because that is what I can get easily here in OZ. You could use pretty well any type really.
The collector is from the sound system trigger. The base is to terminal # J1-5 and the emitter is to terminal # J1-7. The # 104 monolith cap smooths out the chuff signal from the Bachmann circuit.

#18

Thanks Tony! That is great.

Bob C.

#19

I use Lith-ion batteries and I have no problems. I know the dangers of fire, but lets face it, take stock in the amount of Lith-ion batteries in your house right now. If you have a laptop, odds are there is lith-ion batts there. Many new cellphones are lith-ion. Heck I found Lith-ion in my chordless phones in the house.

Bottom line to me, I monitor when I’m charging and I dont leave a locomotive hooked up to the charger. I wont charge something when I’m not home to monitor. Those precautions I think will be just fine for me. But others want to be more cautious then I say, more power to them.

As for the OVGRS circuit, you can cut some of the costs because there are provisions for hooking up the Rev sound card. Since I’m not using Rev then I eliminated those circuits. I have to figure it out, but the cost to produce the circuit was pretty cheap. Plus I got enough to make several circuits because that is how the packaging came.

#20

Jake,

If I read Tony’s diagrams correctly, all I will need is a single transistor soldered to the B’mann main board. The transistor will trigger the sound card the same as a reed switch, only using the optical triggers as they were intended (sorta).

My problem is daytime running. Florida noon time sun is STRONG! I haven’t gotten around to measure it, but Stan Cedarleaf posted in my above referenced thread that he has seen 165 in the tender. That is a bit warmer than I want to go with out some sort of cooling, hence the fan idea. As for charging, I share your respect for Lithium batteries. My charging station will be outside on the back patio (concrete and aluminum).

As I get going on the install I will post pics and descriptions. I will document this fairly well as it will most likely be my guide for other installs in the future.

Bob C.