Large Scale Central

Replacing Aristo "wide radius" switches?

Track and Trestles
#1

My RR was built using Aristocraft’s “wide radius” switches, mainly because they were the largest radius I could fit into the limited space I have, they were relatively cheap, and I didn’t know of any alternatives at the time.

Unfortunately they have proven to be troublesome. I don’t want get into a Aristocraft bashing session about this, and I don’t know what their most recent versions are like. But the fact is that even with extensive work on them, I can only get a train through them reliably in one direction.

This is starting to get old, as I would like to run trains the opposite direction once in a while. Also I can’t make use of the passing sidings.

So… I want to replace these switches with something more reliable. I’m wondering if the Train-Li switches would be a good choice? Or some other brand? Whichever I use, it has to fit the same space and configuration as the AC wide radius switches. But I have no idea what that translates to in the terms used by other brands, i.e., “R1, R2,” etc.

Any recommendations?

#2

Hi Ray,
I’m not sure, but I don’t recall any other brand or size turnout that will exactly replace Aristo wides. I have both Aristo wides and old LGB 16050/16150 turnouts here in my stash and I’ll check them for size comparison. Garden Railroad outside or inside layout??
No matter which you choose, get ready for $$$$$$$$!!!

#3

If you fail on finding a replacement there are methods to modify the Aristo Wide to work reliably. I had the same problem until this past summer when I decided they had to be fixed. With some advice from Stan Ames and some replacement frogs that I got from Aristo several years ago they are now working very reliably in either direction.

#4

The wide turnouts from Aristo are 60" rad (5ft), the Train-Line and LGB are 47.244"(1200mm; 4ft) radius … give or take a little.

As far as I know the Aristo Wide Radius are the only ones with those dimensions and that geometry.

For the happy confusion of what is what from which mfg check http://www.trainli.com/switches-c-295_54_29.html

#5

I just looked at an Aristo wide and set an LGB 16000 R3 on top and the straight thru was about two inches short and the divergent rails were about 1/4" short. The LGB R3 is an 8’ radius or 4’ diameter turnout as Hans has mentioned.
And Aristo wide turnouts can be repaired, unless the ultraviolet has damaged the ties.
I was fortunate to have bought two cases of Aristo wides just before Aristo ran out during their clearance sales last year, think that this would be the last of them, which is probably fact. I see them on EvilBay periodically asking for big dollars. A club member who moved from CT to FL is doing an outside layout and has decided to upgrade from Aristo wide in stainless to Aristo or other #6s in SS and he has a bunch of SS Aristo wides for sale.

#6

I have mostly LGB 16000 series switches on my RR which has a divergence similar to R2 piece of track which makes a 8’ diameter circle. The R1 makes a 4’ diameter circle. The 12000 series switches are very tight ones. I do have 4 Aristo switches. 2 are newer and I don’t have any issues with them though sometimes certain cars “bounce” over the frogs probably due to tall flanges. . I don’t think they are as deep as the LGB ones. 2 of the Aristo switchs are older and I find the biggest problem with those is the points don’t go as far over as they should and this leads to derailments.
I haven’t spent too much time trying to fix these since I switch these by hand and can physically push the points over far enough.

If yours are manual and can reach them maybe you can do the same or get those points to close better somehow.
I have found that the Aristo switches are just a bit wider then the LGB 16000 ones so it might not be that easy to swap them out.

#7

I have some retired dental tools and one is a bent chisel type about 3/16" wide. I have deepened some of the Aristo frogs with this tool which reduces the wheel hop and effectively extends the frog point. I have had to do this to several of the so called new frogs as how deep they sit in the turnout determines the amount of wheel hop.
If you are using the divergent rails for main line, this is a problem as some engines and rolling stock will derail no matter what. However modifying the rerail strip will in most cases resolve this problem. Experimenting with brass shim stock of various thicknesses and heights will indicate what the resolve is. I use thin double sided Scotch tape to hold my trial strips of either brass or plastic as I run the problematic trains thru the divergent rails.
My group layout was originally LGB 16000 turnouts, and Aristo U-25Bs didn’t like them and when the Aristo SD-45s first came out, we had to change to Aristo wides and do lots of track work. I think that the USA SD40-2s didn’t like the 16000s either, but not sure. We eventually did mods to the SD40-2s, PAs and SD70MACs so they would run on the Aristo wides and curves. Most Aristo Dash 9s were improved just by turning the trucks around.

#8

Hmm, bummer. I was hoping this would be an easy fix.

I have some of the replacement frogs, which I got when they first offered them. I haven’t installed them because most of my switches are glued down to a hard backer base, so it would be a major pain. Also, it seems to me that the biggest problem with these switches is that the rails coming out of the frog are way too close together. Do the new frogs correct that?

#9

Ray Dunakin said:

Hmm, bummer. I was hoping this would be an easy fix.

I have some of the replacement frogs, which I got when they first offered them. I haven’t installed them because most of my switches are glued down to a hard backer base, so it would be a major pain. Also, it seems to me that the biggest problem with these switches is that the rails coming out of the frog are way too close together. Do the new frogs correct that?

The new frogs are the same other than being .002"-.004" deeper.
About 20 years ago I ran into a older man that was seriously into Gauge One, 1/32 scale brass engines and rolling stock. He had an elevated outside layout and ran mostly live steam$$$$$$$. He advised me that one of the things to do while building a layout was to NOT permanently attach turnouts and if ballasted, use loose ballast. His layout was all hand laid, hand made turnouts, with frogs that he machined.

#10

Hi Ray,
I think that I understand, depending on what you have the turnouts attached to, you may be able to increase the gauge of the divergent rails as the molded plastic ties/railplates have some gap to them. You may be able to push the outside divergent rail away and install a screw to hold the rail in place. I use #4 SS pan head and flat head screws for some of the track work. Possibly do the same to the inside divergent rail to get the proper gauge of the rails.

#11

Did you try the brass shim bent around the guard rail? It is simple and usually works. My heavyweights go though my Aristo wide turnout reliably after adding the shim.

Do not attempt to grind the frog down at the flange where the wheels “bump” up as this can make matters worse (and did for me). The “bump” drives the wheels toward the diverging route, when so selected, and without the bump, the heavyweights had far more tendency to go in the wrong direction leading to a derailment when taking this route.

#12

Hi Todd,
I agree, a shim on the guard rail is far more effective. I recall deepening some frogs too much now that you mentioned it.

#13

I have four Train Li switches going into a train shed. They are excellent. I am thinking of replacing some of my older aristo switches with them. I have the nickle silver ones. If you can get something close to the ones you are replacing they should work great.

#14

Bob Mac has had a rough day and going to crash, see you all down the pike!!! 11:15 PM here!!!

#15

Handlay…

#16

Ray, Elmmasian has an Aristo turnout fix on his site, I believe. Did you check that?

I would think he would have read your thread and seen your question, but maybe he’s only a sometime visitor to LSC. Or, like other lurkers, he doesn’t know the players. Well, Greg does, I’m sure. But others don’t, based on the comments in this thread.

#17

Talking of track , when LGB prices started to get daft , I started using Peco track and have never had any problems .

A bit late for Ray , I know , and you may find Peco a bit costly in the USA , but I can thoroughly recommend it .

Mike

#18

Joe Rusz said:

Ray, Elmmasian has an Aristo turnout fix on his site, I believe. Did you check that?

I would think he would have read your thread and seen your question, but maybe he’s only a sometime visitor to LSC. Or, like other lurkers, he doesn’t know the players. Well, Greg does, I’m sure. But others don’t, based on the comments in this thread.

Hmmmm, interesting, but no cigar (Greg will pardon the pun!).

Anyway, here’s Greg’s page(s) to the Aristo Wide Radius turnouts.

http://www.elmassian.com/trains/track-aamp-switches/aristo-track/aristo-wide-radius-switches

http://www.elmassian.com/trains/track-aamp-switches/aristo-track/aristo-wr-turnout-vignette

#19

Ray,

Nobody has mentioned the relatively new LGB 1800s. I don’t know what the radius equivalent is but they are certainly wider than the 1600s. I have 2 of them on my layout and have had no problems with them.

Doc Watson

#20

And if you are mad keen on really good track , Garden Railway Specialists make custom built or off the shelf ; I got my dual gauge track from there .

The best bit of off the shelf that I saw in there was a double slip all in one piece . It was a case of buy that or a loco , and the loco was cheaper .

Mike