Large Scale Central

Renumbering Cars & Locos idea

Problem Solving
#1

I was reading an old issue (July 1994) of Model Railroader. There was an article about renumbering cars and locos. The author used scrubbing cleanser (Comet, Ajax, or Cameo copper cleaner) and a wooden toothpick to scrub off the printed lettering from his rolling stock.

The method is to sprinkle a bit a powder on a scrap of paper. Dip the toothpick in some water. Pick up some of the powder with the wet toothpick. Then, scrub the unwanted lettering in a circular motion, until the printed lettering separates from the underlying paint. Checking your progress frequently, so you don’t remove any of the underlying paint surface. Afterwords, you can apply a decal with the new numbers or lettering.

The example in the article was an HO model, but I wonder if it would also work for large scale? I would think that an applicator somewhat larger than a toothpick might be better, but I’m guessing that the pad printed numbers/letters are somewhat similar in large scale. Also, the author does not say if there is any “ghosting” of the removed numbers.

Currently, I’ve got way too many projects to deal with to even think about renumbering all of my identically numbered hoppers or my consists of identically numbered engines, but I hate to see a potentially good idea go to waste. So, if someone wants to give it a shot, post your results here.

-Kevin.

#2

I used rubbing alcohol to try and remove a B&O emblem and by the white emblem started coming off the blue paint around it came with it. It also left the blue paint under the emblem intact, painting over the removed emblem left a clear ghost image behind. However on the other side i simply painted over the emblem without removing it and other than the color being off you can’t tell the emblem was ever there. This was my first attempt at such a task.

#3

dieseldude, I have buffed lettering off cars with some fine wet and dry sandpaper, very carefully. But using an abrasive cleanser with a small tool, like a toothpick, would give the modeler more fine control over what is removed. I have also removed lettering from an Aristo 100 ton hopper with a rag slightly dampened with lacquer thinner, working quickly but carefully. When I used the thinner, there was slight ghosting, but a little bit of Bon Ami took care of that.

#4

Cool tip Kevin, too bad it’s 3 months too late for me. I used fine sandpaper around a wood sliver to start, and rubing alcohol and q-tips to finish on my 5 on Accucraft 3 bay hoppers. It still removed the paint. The up side was I bought an airbrush to touch up and love it.

So really, I owe you. You still gave a gave a good tip, but the timing of it will now be used as my excuse for buying an airbrush.

David Maynard said:

there was slight ghosting, but a little bit of Bon Ami took care of that.

Bon Ami? Never heard of it. Care to enlighten me? Ok, just googled it does any abrasive cleanser work? Or is Bon Ami better because it’s supposed to be fine powder?

#5

Bon Ami isn’t supposed to scratch, like a cleanser like Comet will. I have even used Bon Ami to polish fine scratches out of model airplane canopies.

The problem is, my mom doesn’t understand that it has special uses in my model building, and its been rather hard to find lately. So I have to hide it from her, so she doesn’t use it to do household cleaning.

#6

Some lettering is done with inks, pad printing… try solvents, first on hidden paint, then the letters.

John

#7

I have used the Purple Cleaner or Super Cleaner found in the purple jug.

Soak a cotton ball and let it sit … repeat as needed.

#8

The best comment is that different application techniques (pad printing, decals, etc.) and different paints can take different techniques.

Re-reading the original post, it really seems to me that the person in 1994 was describing removing a DECAL, paint NEVER lifts all in one piece to separate from the base, and neither does pad printing in my experience.

To wit: " until the printed lettering separates from the underlying paint. "

Just does not happen with paint or ink… it wears thinner, but it does not just “separate” in a piece.

The usual advice is try various things, the gentlest ones first. If you are using solvents, test them on a different area and see if they take the base paint or eat the plastic.

Greg

#9

Good old brake fluid has worked for me for years. For small scales I used cotton balls. Now that I’m growed up, I use a q-tip. It doesn’t seem to affect the paint on the cars I’ve done.

#10

Greg Elmassian said:

The best comment is that different application techniques (pad printing, decals, etc.) and different paints can take different techniques.

Re-reading the original post, it really seems to me that the person in 1994 was describing removing a DECAL, paint NEVER lifts all in one piece to separate from the base, and neither does pad printing in my experience.

To wit: " until the printed lettering separates from the underlying paint. "

Just does not happen with paint or ink… it wears thinner, but it does not just “separate” in a piece.

The usual advice is try various things, the gentlest ones first. If you are using solvents, test them on a different area and see if they take the base paint or eat the plastic.

Greg

Greg- The original author from 1994 was actually removing a printed number from a hopper car, not a decal. After removing the printed number, he goes on to replace it with a decal. The title of his article was “Renumbering for Printed Cars and Locomotives.” I think that you assumed that it, “separated in a piece.” The original author stated that it “separated from the underlying paint.” Meaning that it loosened from the underlying paint. Probably becomes part of the cleanser paste.

Although he did this on an H O model, I thought that this method looked interesting and that it had some merit in large scale, as well. There must be some proof in the pudding, because David Maynard uses Bon Ami to remove the ghosting from letter removal.

I’m sure that there are a bunch of different ways to remove lettering and your mileage may vary. The whole point of the thread was not really to discuss the various methods. It was just to put out the information in the event that someone might want to try it. Then we could shoot it down.

As I mentioned in my initial post, “Currently, I’ve got way too many projects to deal with to even think about renumbering all of my identically numbered hoppers or my consists of identically numbered engines, but I hate to see a potentially good idea go to waste. So, if someone wants to give it a shot, post your results here.”

Until someone tries it, no one knows. Any guinea pigs out there?

-Kevin.

#11

Dick Friedman said:

Good old brake fluid has worked for me for years. For small scales I used cotton balls. Now that I’m growed up, I use a q-tip. It doesn’t seem to affect the paint on the cars I’ve done.

Dick, I have used brake fluid on model airplanes. Most times it works well, sometimes it softens that plastic or makes it brittle. It all depends on the plastic used. There are many different methods out there, and before a modeler tries any of them on any model, he/she should do a small scale test on the inside, or some obscure place, to make sure it will not damage the base paint or plastic.

#12

I’ve always loved this caboose, but the “F” was always in the way…

So, I used some of this…

And look… NO “F” IN WAY!!!

I think it looks better and I hope that you do 2. OOOOPS, I’m sorry, I meant too, not 2. Let me correct that…

There we go. And it only took a few minutes.

-Kevin.

#13

ATS 45. Ah, ok. So it works. Nice to know. Now where is that flippen Lionel boxcar I wanted to work on?

#14

So Kevin, it’s clear you got the printing off without damaging the surface below (but of course it’s a little different in color).

My contention was that it would NOT lift off in a piece, just detach. I maintain that you slowly wore it off, by selectively abrading the printing you wanted to remove.

So, did the “F” come off in a chunk, just separate itself from the car?

Greg

#15

Greg- You are correct in that the paint did not “lift off in a piece,” but once again, the original author never states that. The original author stated that it would “separate from the underlying painted surface.” He meant that it would no longer be part of the underlying painted surface and indeed that is what happened. And, being that I used an abrasive powder to do the job, you are also correct in your observation that I “slowly wore it off, by selectively abrading the printing I wanted to remove.” The fact remains that it was an easy job and unlike using a solvent which risks damaging the underlying paint and/or damaging the plastic or using a cleaning solution which takes a long time, this was quick and painless. Also, I did not have to play amateur alchemist and experiment with different solvents and hope for a good outcome.

I was actually quite impressed with just how easy the process was. It literally took me only about 10 minutes and there was no evidence of caboose red paint in the cleanser paste. My test subject caboose has definitely seen better days (check out all the missing railings and such) and the original red paint is slightly faded. So, my best guess is that the slight difference in color beneath the removed letters is due to the fact that the paint underneath those letters is not faded. After all, it has been protected by the white lettering. I would further guess that a new or newer model would have less to no evidence of that. Also, take into account that after removing the letters or numbers, one would usually renumber the model. So any slight evidence of a color difference would all but disappear.

In the end, this method has a lot of positives-

It’s fast.

It doesn’t attack the plastic like solvents do.

There is no “experimenting” with successively stronger solvents.

It doesn’t ruin the underlying base color.

I wish I could take credit for it, but you can thank Rudolf Slovacek.

-Kevin.

#16

I guess I was reading more into “separate”, the use of the word usually means 2 or more pieces come apart.

Grinding bits of paint off a surface is not how I would use the word separate.

But back to results, that’s very good news that it was easy and fast. Much safer than experimenting with solvents that might attack the paint, plastic etc.

Thanks for putting up with my semantics!

Greg

#17

It’s all good, Greg. Most important thing is that the process works and will hopefully save people some time and trouble in the future. This sort of “out of the box” thinking definitely sheds some new light on an old problem- even if the method is over 20 years old!!!

-Kevin.