Large Scale Central

RC your locomotives???

Greg Elmassian said:

Youch! Well I makes me feel better that there is someone even crazier than me! 4.5% !!

Seriously, if I remember correctly, my Dash 9 is a lot slower than the original SD45’s which might make the SD45 work overly hard…

How do the unloaded speeds of your locos compare?

(I only have one Dash 9, a present from Scott Polk… really)

Greg

I’ve never thought to compare them, I was under the impression that they were essentially the same, Aristocraft, 6 axle, good looking, suave, debonaire, wait, never mind… Perhaps I should compare the surviving SD-45 (didn’t get run that day) with the Dash-9s. The Dash-9s didn’t suffer any ill effects, it seems, and they didn’t cut out from their infamous heat fuse thingys, either.

One of these days, I’ll havta re-wire that SD-45.

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

Sheesh guys, I model a Swiss NG mountain railway and kept the grades to 3.5% max. You guys didn’t look at the prototype, did you?

Its a short 4.5%

If one is operating a layout inside their home, I think track power is perfectly okay. Outside, one can use track power, but track cleaning might pose the largest problem. Especially if a layout is large enough where the train kind of disappears.

Battery power is a good idea, but as everyone knows up in here, batteries eventually die out and need recharging.

What about a car or locomotive that when the wheels turn, it charges those batteries up as it makes its way around the layout. Just a thought.

Perpetual motion has never worked!

Joe Zullo said:

Perpetual motion has never worked!

"

Oh ye seekers after perpetual motion, how many vain chimeras have you pursued? Go and take your place with the alchemists.

— Leonardo da Vinci, 1494"

My problem is that my 3.5% grade is about 70 to 80 foot long… a 45 car freight is all on 3.5% at some point.

But I knew this as I planned the layout.

Greg

Keith Chadwick said:

Looking at the issues/options - has anyone considered or implemented a combined approach?

Use on-board batteries and continuously “recharge” from the track power.

This would:

  • allow operation over sections that have marginal power,

  • allow ongoing recharge of the batteries, so that the “fun does not have to stop for a recharge” (however prototypical that may be…)

-Keith.

I tried it, defended it and ultimately removed it…
Yes the system could work, but it had to be kept in balance and what my suppliers failed to inform me was it (their system) needed to be a 24 volt system and run often. I run 2 small locos, a 2-8-0 and a 4-4-0. They didn’t need 24v, so I used 18v batteries and a crest power supply at 18v.
Out of balance and operated occasionally, the batteries drained… and didn’t recharge fast enough to run when power was restored to the track. The Wye and reverse loop were isolated for battery power, but unusable too much of the time…
Now it’s Li-ions and a cheap smart charger for two removable bat packs…Charge after use and ready to go next time.
John

The crux of the problem is the charger, interrupt the power to a smart charger and it resets, and needs some time to determine the state of charge.

Also, although I have not tested this, it would make sense that trying to charge the battery while it is under a varying load would confuse the charger.

So, the intermittent power pickup would probably wreak havoc with a smart charger, and a dumb charger would be a disaster.

The thing to do would make your own smart charger (Dave Bodnar?) with a small microprocessor and a charging chip. Then you would only “re-evaluate” the battery state every so often (and with things somewhat stable) and you would keep settings in flash memory so a power interruption would allow you to resume from where you were, so to speak.

That would work, and allow fast charging.

Realize though, that loco speed would still vary somewhat as the state of charge varied.

Greg

Greg Elmassian said:

Aristo smoke unit uses 1/2 to 3/4 amp… Have tested 27 of them at one time when it was ok to do real evaluations on a certain manufacturer’s site.

Another power grabber is lighted passenger cars, and don’t forget lighted cabeese with smoke units.

Greg

I was running mine at 19.2v and averaged the current by measuring the effect on battery life. Like I said, very rough measurement.

The arguement for battery power is a good one but I still like track power. Yes it is more prototypical to operate the engine and not the track and it is easier to run mulitple units at the same time but the cost still gets me. I don’t mind hitting my 500+ feet of track with the scotchbrite pad on a pole every couple of days or once a month depending on the time of year. Not too many of us have monster layouts where track power or conventional battery RC wouldn’t work. If it is too much work to run the pad around there are special cars and a LGB track cleaner machine that will do it for you. Even with battery power you still need to walk the line to look for anything that may have gotten on the tracks.
It might be slick to have the battery charge as the train goes around but who needs that? Real Trains make many stops on their routes to pick up and drop off cars.
I think a car that houses a generator so when the wheels turn it charges the battery like Stacy suggested would cause significant drag on the train.
Hmm here is an idea how about putting solar panels on all the boxcar roofs. On a sunny day your battery powered train could run forever.

Todd, yes a generator car would place a lot of drag on the train, and recoup a small fraction of power from the motion of the train. Regenerative charging (like on some hybrid cars) where the locomotive would generate power when slowing down, or on a downgrade, would be too difficult to implement in our size, and the weight (force) of the train going down hill wouldn’t generate much power anyway.

The idea of track power to charge on-board batteries sounds like the worst of both worlds to me. You have the track cleaning issue from track power. You have the equipment costs and weight of batteries. And somehow you have to get these to play nice together, so the battery charges while the train is in motion, drawing power either from the battery or the track.

I have toyed with the idea of making a battery powered, track cleaning car. I have enough stuff stashed away here that I could probably cobble something (truly ugly) together to do the job. That would proably be as close as I get to battery powered trains on my set up.

Both battery and track power have their pros and cons. Batteries have come a long way in power to weight ratio. But for many of us, the cost of fitting all of our equipment is prohibitive. Even if I went with 2 trail cars, I would still have to rewire many of my locomotives. Its just not worth it to me.

For someone starting out, it is an option to consider. If each locomotive were equipped, or modified, right after it was purchased, then it wouldn’t be as big of a chore to have all the locomotives set up for RC and/or battery power.

I operate HO trains in 2 different clubs. They both use DCC. Having independant control over my train, that is on the same track with 2, 3, or more other trains, is great. It gives us all such control that we could never have with just track power. But on my home set up, where only 1 or 2 trains are run at a time, controling the track power works just fine. And the money I dont spend on RC and batteries I can “invest” into other equipment.

Todd Haskins said:


Hmm here is an idea how about putting solar panels on all the boxcar roofs. On a sunny day your battery powered train could run forever.

In Stacy’s case that would be a splendid idea.

Use solar panels - remember it’s a desert layout - charge the batteries, go more modern than the current BNSF by installing catenary. Use that to feed the motors in the engines and since there is no return to ground required - the return to the minus pole happens either by telepathy or by dark matter transmission; whichever is more efficient - one would only need a trickle charge on sunny days.

Applying for a patent would be a given, shooting a video demonstrating the principle could be used to monetize the expanding empire (YouTube here we come). The licensing fees will go into a retirement trust fund.

Hans, you funny :slight_smile:

…er…shouldn’t that be…“Hans, you are funny”…?

Give up Padre. Teaching the common man to use proper grammar is a lost cause. :wink:

Why is it so damn hard to imbed a damn video on this forum?

http://euronews.com/2011/06/16/belgium-launches-europe-s-first-solar-train/

Mark Dash said:

Why is it so damn hard to imbed a damn video on this forum?

http://euronews.com/2011/06/16/belgium-launches-europe-s-first-solar-train/

That video can’t be imbedded. The share link they give is for the page, not the video. I’m unable to grab a link to just the video.

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

Todd Haskins said:


Hmm here is an idea how about putting solar panels on all the boxcar roofs. On a sunny day your battery powered train could run forever.

In Stacy’s case that would be a splendid idea.

Use solar panels - remember it’s a desert layout - charge the batteries, go more modern than the current BNSF by installing catenary. Use that to feed the motors in the engines and since there is no return to ground required - the return to the minus pole happens either by telepathy or by dark matter transmission; whichever is more efficient - one would only need a trickle charge on sunny days.

Applying for a patent would be a given, shooting a video demonstrating the principle could be used to monetize the expanding empire (YouTube here we come). The licensing fees will go into a retirement trust fund.

Hans, you really need to cop a chill you silly old goat.

If you had half the experience you claim you have, you would not need to bloviate about it every chance you can by trying to diminish what I posted.

If I did not know any better, I’d swear you have a thing for me. LOL

BTW Solar energy is a great way to enhance any electrically powered item. Yes, it requires allot of sun light. So what! The chief idea is enhancing and not trying to take over for the primary power supply.

Hans, you’re a legend in your own mind.

David Maynard said:

Hans, you funny :slight_smile:

Funny?

or

Sarcastic?

Stacy Krausmann said:

David Maynard said:

Hans, you funny :slight_smile:

Funny?

or

Sarcastic?

Generally referred to as: acerbic wit. With tongue very firmly in cheek.

Now back to the regularly scheduled program.