Large Scale Central

Raise trackwork--best plan?

Track and Trestles
#1

Total newb here. I’ve read around the forum a bit but what I am after is some methods or how to’s for raised trackwork. I seen some pics of using mixed wood, for stringers, trex for stringer. Is there a source of methods you guys can point me to and what might be good for my climate vs what to avoid. I am in the northern part of WV–so temps from 0-100 as typical.

I think from what I am reading–to avoid backman track–but brass is the way to go. Any thoughts? Also joining track has just as many methods with no clear victor as far as methods?

#2

Definitely stay away from Bachmann, sort of. Stay away from the Big Hauler line. That is pressed metal rail. It will rust very quickly, it is not meant for outdoor use. Bachmann has introduced a line of solid metal track and that should be suitable for outdoor use. Its pretty new so there isnt a lot people using it yet.

The material for your track is really dependent on what you are using for an operating system. track power (DC power pack), DCC or battery/RC

If you are using track power or DCC, you will need a constant reliable connection between the track and your locomotives, which requires cleaning the rail. So you will favor materials that dont tarnish as much. Keep in mind all metals will tarnish in an outdoor environment. Some just arent as much. RC/Batt does not rely on a connection with the rails and so it doesnt require clean track.

Brass will tarnish pretty easily and so it is not an ideal material for track power or DCC. It is ok for RC/Batt (This the material I use because I use RC/Batt).

Aluminum is pretty good although it is not as durable as other materials. However, since you are elevating your rail off the ground this should not be an issue. I do believe that aluminum will oxidize pretty easily so you will have to clean it frequently for DCC or Track Power.

Nickle Silver is better than Brass in oxidation but you will have to keep it clean.

Stainless Steel is probably the preferred material for track power or DCC. It does not oxidize as much and maintenance is a lot less. It probably the most durable of all the materials when it comes to abuse. It is also the most expensive.

If cost is a concern, I would suggest looking at Nickle Silver as an option, if you are looking at running Track Power or DCC.

As far as materials for your ladder. My only advice is look at materials that wont rot away. I like wood and it is easy to work with, but you will have to replace it as it rots. It is cheaper so you have to weigh that out. Look into stuff like PVC which is more expensive. I used PVC 1 x 2s and PVC 2 x 2s with PVC pipe as my risers and it will last a very long time.

Thats about all the advice I can give you. Keep asking questions and we will help as we can.

#3

Thanks Jake, I plan to start with track power as cost is a huge obstacle

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do i need to get risers below frost line or is that not an issue?

#4

We’ve had good luck in Northern California of raising the track off the ground by building the layout on two layers of concrete blocks. We set the base course on about two inches of dry cement, level the blocks, then fill the blocks to about two inches from the top of the block(s) with 1.5 inch gravel. Then a couple of inches of concrete for the sub road bed. Set the track on the concrete. Add a mix of quick crete and sand for the ballast.

It’s pretty permanent, but the track can be removed easily by tapping the ballast and track with a small hammer.

I think you’ll find the slip joiners that come with most track to be useless after a few seasons due to expansion/contraction and gunk getting into the joiners. Clamps work better, especially if you get rid of the slip joiners first. I prefer Hillmans, but you can use just about any make. I’ve not noticed any difference in performance.

Track power is a good place to start, as it costs the same whether you’ve got one locomotive or five or ten. And the only time you have to stop is when you want to, not when the batteries die.

You’ll have to keep the track clean, but that’s not a big problem if the layout isn’t too big. A pole sander with a scotchbrite pad will make short work of corrosion, sap, fruit juice, etc. A little transmission fluid (Dexron III) on the track helps a LOT.

#5

Welcome Matt

No you do not need to go below frost line you just let it float. As for support my personal opinion is use wood. It can span much further now for the curves the composites work excellent however they need supports 4x’s more than wood. Meaning a 2x4 can span 8’ between supports where composite needs maximum of 2’. That make sense?

I run track power myself and have for many years my suggestion is to hard solder all your joints every 15 to 20’ then use a hard clamp like split jaw or hilman. Depending what track you purchase you will want to remove the screws underneath that hold the ties to the rail and let the ties float on the rail. You will get many opinions and I’m not saying do it this way but this method has worked for me in PA for many years flawlessly.

#6

Matt

Is this what your looking for??

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

I used 2" pvc pipe and it is driven into the ground about 24" with a post driver. My frost line is around 30" and I’ve only had to adjust 3 poles since it was built in 2008

The ladder is made of cedar with polystyrene (pink or blue stuff) styrofoam top. I use a piece of cedar that fits inside the PVC to make the adjustment.

I use AMS code 250 (.250" rail height)(brass rail) narrow gauge track. It is one of the cheapest track available.

Rodney

#7

Yes, Randy that is what I am looking for.

Do the clamps allow for expansion?

#8

Matt

No, clamps do not allow for expansion. There is several way to allow for the expansion and contraction. I use battery power so when I lay track, I allow for it using stock rail joiners. You could do the same with track power and solder a feeder wire to every rail.

Do you know what you want to model yet??? (narrow or standard gauge)

Rodney

#9

It will be standard–I do have a great section of the yard for narrow --steep grades and such–but that would be down the road some

#10

If you use clamps to hold the track together, you might fix the straight sections to the roadbed, but not the curves.

That way, expansion or contraction should it occur (in my climate it seems more theoretical than practical) will simply make the curve slightly larger or smaller. Not enough to worry about, IMHO.

#11

Good advice given so far and here is my 2 cents. I have been at it since 2006 and live in Mass so I am also subject to temps of 0 to 100.
If I were you I would start small with a plna for expansion in the future. Track power is a good way to start. I ran 125’ of track and one engine with a LGB 1 amp starter set pack. Rail joiners work Ok and putting conductive grease in them allows them to work longer. I like brass track code 332 since most of my RR is on the ground and subject to 2 cocker spaniels jumping on it. Most of my track is a preowned mix of LGB, Aristocraft and USATrains. They all work well together. Brass track doesn’t need to be 100% clean and shiny to conduct electricity. Most of mine is tarnished. What you will need to do is run a green scothbrite pad over it and keep your engine/loco wheels clean. I have used railclamps as they have become available over the years. Today all my switches/turnouts have railclamps attaching them in case I need to pull one out and with the clamps I won’t disturb the rest of the track.

Being elevated you won’t have to worry as much about dirt, leaf litter, critters and other maintenace woes but you will need ot worry about a derailed train falling off your bench.

Will you be a steam, or diesel guy? Backwoods shortline of modern mainline? A point to point, a roundy round or a switching layout?

You have lots of choices and you came to the right place for advice. Do remember that it is your RR and you can run it the way you like.
Happy RRing

#12

I will probably be a mix of small diesels and steam–mostly shortline–lots of curves will be necessary. i have “hilly” terrain so I will have probably 2-3% almost everywhere to get to where I want to go. Roundy round for me with limited switches.

I do appreciate the advice so far and i am taking it all in. Thanks guys!

#13

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9513/10055842.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That pic says 1,000 words …nice!

Matt

the hard soldered rail or welded rail as I call (it expands and contracts) in the curves and has worked well for me. Just throwing ideas out there as you asked for?

#14

yeah–that’s they way i think i would go–then solder jumpers for the curves. What did you use for you roadbed–concrete pavers?

#15

MY rr is just track laid on asphalt shingles on the dirt. I built it years ago (when the knees and back were more flexible), and I don’t have anything close to ground heave.

The projects I’ve helped on that used concrete blocks were designed to compensate for uneven ground or to build a raised planter box.

I never soldered jumpers. I saw how much work that was on my brother-in-law’s layout, and how inflexible it was when it came time to repair track sections, so I never went that route.

On one of my last layout rebuilds, we had dozens of 1 foot sections. Realizing that clamps would have been a big cost factor, we decided to (resistance) solder three or four of these together, then clamp those sections together. That layout has only one connection for a couple hundred feet of track!

#16

Well, here are some great ideas.

Port Orford Coast RR Part 1

**Port Orford Coast RR Part 2**

**Port Orford Coast RR Part 3**

**Ottawa Valley Garden Railway Society, otherwise known as the Ironwood, Peter’s Pond and Western Railway**

#17

For some reason I cannot get PDF’s to open–the first 3 links

While I have an audience here, is handlaying and cheaper than sectional track? I’m sure someone can share a good how-to–please

#18

Matt

I know you said you wanted to go with track power but, this is where it gets a little tricky. Good brass or stainless rail for track power verses cheap alum rail and battery power.

You need to figure out how much track you want and how many locos you want and compare the costs of track or battery power. Will it be cheaper to invest in battery-RC stuff and cheap track or better track and good power supply.

Here is a link for 96 feet of code 250 alum rail for under $50(will make 48 feet of track)

http://www.switchcrafters.com/ez-catalog/X381875/14/SC-AR-250-16

Switchcrafters also have all the supplies you need to handlay your track.

Here is a link on how I make switches and you can use the same method for track.

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/14914/switches-my-way

What part of WV do you live??? You need to visit some layouts and help you decide what way to go.

Rodney

#19

I’m in the upper panhandle–about 40 minutes from Pittsburgh

#20

Matt,

You’ve been given some great examples. Two that I’d like to add are the IPP&WRR on the OVGRS website and the Finger Lakes Live Steamers #1 gauge trackage. Both are fine examples and work at many different heights.

The IPP&WRR floats on the top of the ground on large patio pavers and may prove useful to your terrain.

Searches of “OVGRS” and “Finger Lakes Live Steamers” should prove useful to you.