Here’s a question…I’ve been scouring the suppliers of brass extrusions sites for an extrusion matching the one used by the various rail clamp suppliers, without success. These tings do not take a rocket scientist to build. I have a drill press and taps.
Would anyone know where such extrusions can be found? Even something close would most likely work.
Are you trying to copy the split jaw/hillman or are you trying to copy the Aristo style?
You can give up on the first, otherwise these guys would have used the extrusion already…
The second style you might find…
Greg
Split Jaws and Hillmans were machined out of brass bar stock, if that is what your are asking.
He wants to find a stock brass extrusion that he can just cut into chunks and tap the holes. (he states this explicitly)
First: if it did exist, I’d bet the tolerances are not near what SJ and Hillman have on thier machined parts.
Second, if it was off the shelf, then SJ and Hillman would be a lot cheaper.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
He wants to find a stock brass extrusion that he can just cut into chunks and tap the holes. (he states this explicitly)
First: if it did exist, I’d bet the tolerances are not near what SJ and Hillman have on thier machined parts.
Second, if it was off the shelf, then SJ and Hillman would be a lot cheaper.
Greg
Exactly Greg. I would take it then, that Hillman and SJ machine their own. Many years ago, I had some brass kickplates and pushplates that I had removed from doors being thrown away. I made a couple dozen four screw clamps. And while they work OK, they were not as easy to work with as the store bought variety. Another issue, in machining them, is that the type of brass used in making hardware for the door industry is somewhat harder than the brass we are used to in our track. It may have something added to it in it’s processing. I’m not sure though.
I tried Aristo’s clamps a few years ago but found that they split along the scored line at the bottom of the clamp within a year or two.
Since I run battery power I am not concerned with any electrical continuity. I am just looking for a way to keep costs down.
He asked for a brass extruded rail clamp matching the ones made by various manufactures. No one that I know of extrudes rail clamps that resemble SJ/Hillman.
I can read, Greg. How about not being so not so condescending when you reply.
Let’s all play nicely. John, your input into my query is well appreciated. I know Greg’s responses can sound a bit condescending at times. However I believe he is well meaning. It’s difficult to understand nuances in the written form.
I find it hard to believe that the various rail clamp manufacturers don’t by readily available extrusions, or at the least extrusions that already have the shape in them that is required, but that may need some trimming to get the extrusion required out of them.
Of the three rail clamp manufacturers out there, Hillman, Slpitjaw and Uncle Herms, I doubt they all have extrusion machinery. However, I may be wrong in my presumption.
Dan,
Yes, I should know better than to answer Greg’s posts. Among my careers, 25 years in metal fab, including foundry and extrusions is
why I volunteered a reply.
Brass rail is extruded, but we all know that. Clamps, on the other hand, need two halves (A left and right, if you will) one threaded and one with a clearance hole. So they still have to be cleaned up and machined even if they were extruded. More man power and time. It is simpler to set up and machine them in smaller lengths and then chop them to size.
Also each manufacture has a slightly differend outline on their track. For instance, my LGB track doesn’t quite fit the Accucraft clamps I ordered when I couldn’t find any hillmans. Hillmans fit LGB perfectly. Usa track has a slightly thicker base and if you but it up against Aristo track and use a clamp, the rail head is slightly uneven.
So you can see there are no standards among the rail clamp manufacturers and the rail extrusions.
Metal extrusion equipment is very expensive: The raw material is usually melted in a foundry and then fed thru a series of dies to form the desired shape, and then pulled along and sliced to the proper length of the part and so on…
Why should we expect standards for clamps, when there seem to be very few standards – anywhere – in large scale !
Dick Hillman had a mill in his garage. I know, I saw it several times. Nothing like having a clamp maker in your club. Gee, I miss the old Hillman company.
Sorry John, I thought maybe you missed he wanted to start with an extrusion.
I did some research, don’t see anything close to the Hillman / SJ designs. I think the custom costs would be high.
But If you look at the “Aristo type” which has a “hook” on one side and the other side has screws positioned to clamp on the base, there’s some stock brass extrusions that are close.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41kRrpzXIdL.jpg)
It might be a lot of work and waste to trim away the excess though. The ones I saw were about twice as large as you needed. I’d start along that route.
By the way, the Hillmans are much more “touchy” in terms of dimensions, since it’s a square slot that contacts the foot of the rail, much more dependent on the rail contour. The SJ has a more generic “notch” for the foot of the rail. I’m no machining expert, but I’ve considered the same thing, I have invested a lot of $$ in stainless SJ’s!
Greg
I had forgotten about the newer Aristo clamps, Greg. I’m sure I’ve seen an extrusion very similar to theirs in my forty five years in the constuction trades. It was a simpler matter to get trashed or left over items from the various subcontractors on the job, in particular store front and glass suppliers, than it is now being retired. Although most of their material is aluminum, they probaly could have found something for me. This who;e excercise may end up for naught if I find out that making my own is just not cost effective, material wise. As for labor, I have all the time in the world, when I’m not fixing or making something for one of my kids homes. LOL
Dan Padova said:
Let’s all play nicely. John, your input into my query is well appreciated. I know Greg’s responses can sound a bit condescending at times. However I believe he is well meaning. It’s difficult to understand nuances in the written form. I find it hard to believe that the various rail clamp manufacturers don’t by readily available extrusions, or at the least extrusions that already have the shape in them that is required, but that may need some trimming to get the extrusion required out of them. Of the three rail clamp manufacturers out there, Hillman, Slpitjaw and Uncle Herms, I doubt they all have extrusion machinery. However, I may be wrong in my presumption.
The clamps are machined from solid brass, stainless or alu. From my previous life I’m familiar with a machine that was used to produce the connectors for the “Neutral” in distribution boxes. Feed in the bar, drill and tap the holes, cut off to length. All fully auto and in whatever length (number of connections) required. But … I doubt that the clamp mfgs would go that expensive route.
They buy the bar and then machine the dovetail, drill and tap the holes in a multi-station op and cut-off. Next cut the part length wise to get the two halves.
BTW I was planning on producing some insulating clamps, looked at the price of the dove tail cutter and said … not too bloody likely.
Now tha SplitJaw has their website up and running I’ll order the stuff. Getting info from those guys, when the site was out, was not a pleasant experience. GRRRR
Mr. Hillman’s Hillman Clamps seem to be more robust than the Split Jaws I’ve used. No Hillmans havebroken, but several Split Jaws have, well, split.
I’ve got some old San-Val clamps with four large screws, but only use them for temporary layouts.
I have the opposite experience, no SJ’s failed, but several Hillmans… I attribute it to the square corners in the milled slot… perfect way to create stress risers, as my engineering friends would say.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
I have the opposite experience, no SJ’s failed, but several Hillmans… I attribute it to the square corners in the milled slot… perfect way to create stress risers, as my engineering friends would say. Greg
Me too. But we are using Aristo track. I think LGB track fits that squre cornered Hillman slot better.
I have had Hillmans break several times. I’m pretty sure it was due to expansion/contraction from freezing water in the clamp. (Ain’t it amazing that H2O is stronger than a brass alloy?)
Anyway, as a test I packed a clamp with conductive grease and left it out on a piece of rail. It’s been out there for several years and hasn’t broken yet.
I am not lookiing forward to removing my clamps and packing them all. So I just replace the broken ones every spring.
But like I said earlier, I ordered a bag on 100 Accucraft joiners and they don’t fit my LGB rail that well.
I could take a saw to the slot that holds the rail, but why re-machine. They should have worked.
I have had similar problems with the few split Jaws I have tried as well.
I’m beginning to think that perhaps Aristo was on to something with their original joiners. If only the screws didn’t get lost in the ballast so often.
Yeah,
But turning your 6ft length of track upside down, after leveling and ballasting?
Steve Featherkile said:
I’m beginning to think that perhaps Aristo was on to something with their original joiners. If only the screws didn’t get lost in the ballast so often.
Most of my railroad is joined with the Aristo joiners. I only use clamps at bridges, switches and breaks in large sections. I did upgrade the screw though. I use the washer head Phillips screws they originally used on the bottom of the rail holding the ties on. When assembling outdoors I use masking tape to hold the screw to the #2 Phillips driver untill I have a few threads in.
Jon Radder said:
Steve Featherkile said:
I’m beginning to think that perhaps Aristo was on to something with their original joiners. If only the screws didn’t get lost in the ballast so often.
Most of my railroad is joined with the Aristo joiners. I only use clamps at bridges, switches and breaks in large sections. I did upgrade the screw though. I use the washer head Phillips screws they originally used on the bottom of the rail holding the ties on. When assembling outdoors I use masking tape to hold the screw to the #2 Phillips driver untill I have a few threads in.
I used to dip the tip of the screwdriver and get a dab of grease on the ends.
