Has anyone ever seen this employed? I was thinking while waiting to fall asleep last night, and this strange notion was the product of that thought. I would think it would almost necessitate the use of concrete road bed and anti freeze in the heating fluid. There would also be a learning curve on setting up the loops, but I think it could help keep railroads open in the worst of winters. Of course this would only be used when your plow is broken,overwhelmed, or you just don’t have time. I’m I crazy?
Randy Lehrian Jr. said: I’m I crazy?
Careful now… you shouldn’t leave your self so open…
I wonder if, assuming your rails are conductive and continuous, a low voltage applied between the nearest point and the farthest point of the track might generate enough warmth to accomplish your goal.
Of course, since we try to have low resistance in the tracks, it may be problematic. Maybe the normal radiant heat is the way to go…
It can be done, not sure if it is worth the expense.
Snow melt systems are expensive to operate, but they do work well.
For my real job we sell these systems for driveways, sidewalks, stairwells etc.
Sean, Fully prepared for the responses, I would never want to be considered normal any way.
Michael, In my situation (aluminum rail with no power) that wouldn’t be an option. But perhaps with track power…
Vincent, Yeah I know it would probably add about $1 to $2 per foot depending on the size of your layout. My home is radiant heated, designed and installed by me. So I guess I was thinking of using fluid, but electric may be a nice way to go too. Certainly much cleaner install. Again I wouldn’t want to run it unless normal snow plowing and ROW maintenance couldn’t keep up. Plowing is fun! So for that reason cost to operate shouldn’t be too high.
You could get the Christmas rope lights (not the led ones) and place them under the ties.
These were discounted after Xmas.
They do give off a low heat and would melt the snow and ice.
These placed in gutters would also melt the ice and keep ice dams from forming.
I have electric wires to prevent ice dams. They do the job slowly but do not have the power to melt more than a little ice around them in cold weather. They might work I certain conditions. They come in long lengths…can’t remember but you might be able to daisy chain them.
Ha ha Dan, that reminds me of a family where they used to place the cheese grater on the stove after washing, because the warmth of the pilot light dried it out (you cannot dry it easily with a towel)
When they moved to a more modern house, they had a gas stove, but it had ignitors and no pilot lights, but the cheese grater was often seen on the burner.
Regards, Greg
Randy,
Unless you plan to purchase stock in the Power Utility that is supplying your electric (this is to recover a SMALL percentage of your costs), I think you will find the idea novel, but not practical. Just as an example, I had to heat trace about 40 feet of exposed water line under my house in Tennessee, where the temps do not get below freezing very often, but when the did, that 40 feet really ramped up my electric bill. You being where you are, I would assume you will get far more below freezing days and far, far more days of snow. I could never get a good handle on heat loss calculations or I would offer up a sample.
There is a large difference in cost calculations between what you are proposing - a hobby, and what Vincent does - safety related. Companies spend millions of dollars on ‘stuff’ to keep OSHA and the civil attorneys off their … butt. But they won’t fix the window regulator on the company truck.
Just my 40 years of design rearing it’s ugly head.
Bob C.
BTW: If this was a in any way a practical idea, why haven’t road departments picked up on it, at least at the more dangerous intersections to provide better stopping control? Any idea Vincent?
Not Vinnie, but I can answer that. Its cheaper to throw sand and salt into the intersection.
Bob “IA3R#7” Cope said:
BTW: If this was a in any way a practical idea, why haven’t road departments picked up on it, at least at the more dangerous intersections to provide better stopping control? Any idea Vincent?
From what I sell (electric ice melt systems) the cost and the operating costs would be to significant to make it worthwhile to install in a actual city roadway.
Plus, with how cities & towns like to dig up every road 3-6 months after a repave everything would get destroyed.
It does work great on sidewalks and exposed stairwells… but again, the cost of operation is expensive.
A few years back I sold a ice melt system to a live performance theater, they did about 100’ x 4’ of sidewalk and about equal space of exposed stairwells…
Besides the cost of material the power requirements forced them to install a separate 400a 120/208 3ph 4w service just to power the ice melt system…
They used it for (1) winter season and have since abandoned it due to operating costs.
I can see where a system like that would be awfully expensive to operate. It’s very difficult to change the temperature of large expanses of concrete. Turning a home-brew system on in advance of a storm probably wouldn’t work because it would take too long to bring the temp up.
One of the buildings the company I work for owns is made from pre-cast concrete slabs. Stairwells are unheated. In the spring it can be 75 degrees outside, but the stairwells will be very chilly.
A friend of mine installed such a system to keep his 300 ft uphill driveway clear, up the Entire River Valley in North Central Washington. After paying for the power to run the thing for one year, he went out and bought a John Deer Gator with a plow blade. He said it was a lot cheaper.
I suppose.
Methinks he just wanted to justify the Gator to SWMBO. 
The thing to remember is, it’s not that hard to heat up a slab. But the slab that you heat up outside in winter, is trying to heat up the whole out side! the more surface area exposed the worse it is. It works great inside homes because that heat “stays” in the house and the zone shuts down for a few hours while the slab cools. Out side it’s constantly being siphoned off to the atmosphere.
As for my idea of application to our railroads, I was thinking that you would mostly just plow, but if you had bad icing then you could turn it on for a while to melt that off. In theory you would only need it 3 of 4 times a year for a couple hours.
I wonder for a smaller application like this if there aren’t some single phase units available? Conversely If you used hot “water” in Pex tubing you would just need a hot water tank and pump. The install would be harder having to route all the Pex out to the layout. We heat our 2300 square ft. home with a 50 gallon natural gas fired tank. We also have a tankless electric plumed in too, but it is noisy and costs much more to use than NG. So to melt your back yard pike 3 or 4 times year I’m sure a 20 or 30 gallon version would work.
Using you existing radiant heating system would be the way to go. First, you already have a boiler. You are familiar with radiant heating by the mere fact that you designed and installed it. You would need would be a heat exchanger. The Pex tubing, running under your tracks would be filled with Glycol. A thermostat with an outdoor sensor and a separate circulator for the outdoor tubing and you’re on your way to ice free tracks. Contrary to what someone mentioned, concrete will hold the heat for quite some time, after the thermostat is satisfied and the circulator stops running.
I designed and installed radiant heat for my own home. The kitchen is a slab on grade and the rest of the house has Pex tubing with attached heat transfer plates, running through the joists. Even the wood floors retain heat after the system shuts down, although not as well as the concrete in the kitchen.
I’m very happy with the radiant heat and SWMBO is thrilled that she doesn’t have to clean under baseboard convertors any more.
Randy, I think the key to your idea is that you are only defrosting a narrow strip, and only a few times a year.
I say go for it, especially since you already apparently have a system to tap into.
Greg
Randy, my (hair-brained ?) tentative plan is too cover the layout with a poly hoop greenouse… instead of erecting it as normally done, I’ll split it at the center which will be mounted on the stockade fence. The plastic sides should shed the snow. The 48 foot green house that I currently have has a center height of appox 7.5" and should cover a 100’ run.
Hey guys, More good comments. Just to set the record straight I’m not planning on doing this at all. We are leaving our current house in less than two years, so I’ll be happy to throw down some temporary track this spring. I just wanted to see if anyone had tried it or at minimum discuss the idea. If we were staying and I was doing this, here is how I would go about it. It would be a completely separate system. You can’t just add extra tubing for free. It drains heating and pumping resources. Right now the water heater we have is not overwhelmed but there are times when lots of zones are on that I know I need more pump. So for those reasons I would just get a pump tank and tubes. There would be no thermostat interface tied to zone valves and etc. Just a simple light switch to turn on the pump at my discretion. Even if I were installing a new radiant system in a house knowing I’d want to use it on the railroad too, I’d probably still keep them separate. I’n my mind you don’t want a problem with the railroad portion taking down you home system.
Phil, You idea seems much more direct. Just don’t let the snow get to it! I’d like to see pictures when you do this.
Randy
I’d much rather have the layout in a real greenhouse, perhaps on raised benchwork, That would be a “permanent” structure, expensive and taxable, The poly-house is not considered permanent, and subsequently untaxed. I wonder if your idea could be accomplished with a wood stove, piping and a pump. I recall seeing wood cook stoves that ran tubing through the firebox that was used to heat dish water. The problem would be finding them -The one I saw was in a cabin in the Alaskan Bush - I suspect they were top of the line in their day, and rare. As we plan on moving when my wife also retires, my idea utilizes equipment on hand, and is easily moved.