Large Scale Central

"What Makes a Great Garden Railway?"

General Discussion
#1

Discuss.

There is no right answer.

I was going through some old GRs on a very rainy day recently, when I came across a series with the aforementioned title.

In one, Herb Chaudiere put forth his ideas. Basically, he stated that what makes a great GR is fidelity to reality. Granted, that is not everybody’s cup of tea, but it is his idea. He went on to say that smooth operation, reliability, realism and radio control help his idea of a great GR. Sound is important, he said, but realism is the key. He rejects Code 332 rail, with scale “two man size boulders” for ballast. Broad curves with spiral easements give the train a realistic appearance as it leaves the tangent. He wonders just how many garden railroaders have actually “walked the track on a real railroad and have seen just what the track and its surroundings look like.”

He echoes the oft mentioned sobriquet that no GR is ever finished, and “nothing on them can ever be considered permanent.”

He says that a great GR must go somewhere and do something, in other words, it must have a reason for existing.

So… What, in your opinion, makes for a great Garden Railway?

#2

For me a great garden railway goes somewhere beyond the line of sight so the train has a chance to disappear either behind a bush, tree, rocks or a tunnel. It is important for a GR to hold the engineers interest so it needs somewhat of a purpose even if it is just to shuttle cars from one siding to the next. Interest is also held by the fact that a GR is never done. There are so many facets to this hobby to keep the gardner, the fine scale modeler, the electronics nut, and of course the kid in all of us going. Who doesn’t imagine they are at the throttle of their favorite loco as it bombs down the tracks?
The best part of a GR is that they are unique as their owners and with that no one can tell us that we are doing it wrong as long as we are having FUN !

#3

What makes a Great Garden Railway is the amount of pleasure YOU get from it .

No fun=useless railway .

Lots of fun = damn fine job .

I do not post pics of my various layouts because I made them for me , and because other people do not see things through my eyes I will not give anyone the chance to spoil my fun by saying “Ya dunnit all wrong” .

I dunnit rite for me . I live with it .

Mike Brit

PS I am quite happy showing models I’ve made because I only show the ones that I am totally satisfied with , i.e. about every tenth model .

#4

“What Makes a Great Garden Railway?”

If I had half a clue what the answer to that question was, I’d try to build one…:wink:

As it is, I just try to make mine as interesting to me as I can.

#5

Well said , Ken .

Mike Brit

#6

Two guys wrote a letter to MR several years ago to say that anyone who does not model a real RR in a particular small time period with absolute attention to authenticity in every way, is INSULTING real railroads and their employees. I’m certain that’s the word they used: insult.

Of course this is bonkers. We’re playing with our toys, FGS. I agree with Todd: a Garden Railway, or any model railroad, is Great if the owner thinks it is.

Those guys who wrote the letter should check out John Ott’s Miskatonic RR. Their heads will explode!!

http://www.ottgallery.com/MRR.html

On the other hand, I know what you’re looking for–and again I agree with Todd, the train has to disappear and re-appear in its course around the layout. I also think it should be dual-purpose: a loop for continuous running so you can watch the train drift through the rocks/trees/flowers while you sit in your patio chair drinking beer with your guests; but able to be operated prototypically when you’re in the mood.

#7

I have a simple philosophy:

There is NO WRONG WAY to build a model railroad, if the end results satisfy the builders expectations.

There are so many things wrong with the conditions set forth by the letter writers mindset. for one thing EVERY model railroad is a caricature, that’s because every model railroad is an INTERPRETATION of reality. Unless you of course build an exact scaled down 1;1 model of an actual section of a real railroad which of course would be physically impossible to do in most cases because of the shear sizes of area involved. So we pick and chose what we model, then we compress the actual scale to fit an area and we then depict according to our own unique visions what it is we wish to display, IOWs a caricature of a reality. There’s no way around that.

The other thing is, just who’s vision is correct, I’m sure any one can look at a certain prototype based MR and say “that wasn’t there at that time, or that’s in the wrong place, or that building is the wrong shade of tan” It can get really ridiculous. I’ve seen model airplane wonks get into a near fistfight over who had the “more correct” version of F-14 #354 of squadron VF-14 off the aircraft carrier Independence as it was on June 7, 1979. I mean it can get just as seriously silly with train wonks.

I personally feel if your going to do the prototype thingy-wingy its way better to capture the feel and atmosphere of a line or era, instead of worrying about being so anal to a prototype as to wonder whether Joe’s ham sandwich on the counter of the dispatchers office at the station in Pigsjaw Tennessee on the NW RR row as its modeled on your layout at precisely 12:42pm on July 29, 1949 should have onions modeled on it.

George Sellios was a master at capturing “feel and atmosphere”, but lately even he’s caving to the uber-realists.

#8

Vic Smith said:

I have a simple philosophy:

There is NO WRONG WAY to build a model railroad, if the end results satisfy the builders expectations.

There are so many things wrong with the conditions set forth by the letter writers mindset. for one thing EVERY model railroad is a caricature, that’s because every model railroad is an INTERPRETATION of reality. Unless you of course build an exact scaled down 1;1 model of an actual section of a real railroad which of course would be physically impossible to do in most cases because of the shear sizes of area involved. So we pick and chose what we model, then we compress the actual scale to fit an area and we then depict according to our own unique visions what it is we wish to display, IOWs a caricature of a reality. There’s no way around that.

The other thing is, just who’s vision is correct, I’m sure any one can look at a certain prototype based MR and say “that wasn’t there at that time, or that’s in the wrong place, or that building is the wrong shade of tan” It can get really ridiculous. I’ve seen model airplane wonks get into a near fistfight over who had the “more correct” version of F-14 #354 of squadron VF-14 off the aircraft carrier Independence as it was on June 7, 1979. I mean it can get just as seriously silly with train wonks.

I personally feel if your going to do the prototype thingy-wingy its way better to capture the feel and atmosphere of a line or era, instead of worrying about being so anal to a prototype as to wonder whether Joe’s ham sandwich on the counter of the dispatchers office at the station in Pigsjaw Tennessee on the NW RR row as its modeled on your layout at precisely 12:42pm on July 29, 1949 should have onions modeled on it.

George Sellios was a master at capturing “feel and atmosphere”, but lately even he’s caving to the uber-realists.

Wow, Vic, say what you mean, don’t beat around the bush…

First of all, I said that there is no wrong answer, I just asked what is your idea of a great garden railroad. Then, I put forth one man’s idea (not necessarily my own) as a springboard for discussion. I think that Herb’s ideas have at least as much merit as yours, don’t you? Nowhere did I mention prototype, Herb just says that he likes “realism,” and then went on to define it as a railroad with a purpose.

I like my sandwiches without onions, but that’s just me.

So… Vic… What is your idea of a great garden railroad? You haven’t said.

#9

Steve, I think he was talking about the letter writers in my post, not about what you said.

#10

Ahh, I understand. I apologize, Vic.

#11

On the other site I have been asked to “approve” of one track plan or another. Its not for me to say what another person will or won’t like, and I will not do that. What my be “perfect” for one model railroader may be a bore or a nightmare for another. Model railroads are a very personal choice. So I do not criticize anyone’s “vision”. I didn’t even criticize Stacy’s vision, although he thought I did. All I do is offer suggestions, ask specific questions and point out possible “issues” with a track-plan or set up.

As I have said what is perfect for one may be a total bore or nightmare for another. My perfect garden railroad is mine, because its mine. What I don’t like I can change or work with. What also makes mine perfect is I “see” the town sitting right there, where any other viewer will see rocks. Over there, I “See” the church and the house I grew up in, where others see a mound of mud. I see the railroad the way I want it to someday be, not the way it is now. But best of all, I see trains running along with very few issues, because I did a lot of things close enough to right that the trains can run. And hey, I built that!

#12

Adherence to a general theme and timeframe.

Plausibility. Situations need not be real, but must be plausible.

Nothing (plants included) is notably out of scale.

No weeds or undesirable plants.

Trains have purpose in the garden.

Track work allows for trains to run all day without derailing.

Trains are continually/intermittently running in and out of view.

Population centers have a population.

Motion everywhere you look, usually including water and animation.

Sound where ever you listen.

Innovation.

The railroad has “that something” that sets it off from the others.

#13

Having one!

A theme is nice for operations, get those empties and loads in and out on schedule! Sooooo much rostered equipment operations can be run from wood burners to modern and individual RR equipment to match.

Loop-the-loop - sure, can’t beat sitting on the deck or along side track and watching your consist action; level and even trackwork - hah, walk the railroads *actually you are trespassing today, my track is uneven, I can get close and personal to the ‘Island’ and observe the couplers moving up and down; great truck action on diesels especially cool and satisfactory for little or no derailments.

The theme, enjoy - enjoy - enjoy; I especially like the relating our RR Americana to old and young visitors; 'see this marker light - here it is on my locomotive; did U know the D&H “Bridge Line” terminated in Wilkes-Barre, the roundhouse was located … This diesel looks and sounds like one that ran out to Harveys Lake and thru Hansons Amusement park to Noxen tannery years ago…

Why do I have this RR?

#14

Steve Featherkile said:

Vic Smith said:

I have a simple philosophy:

There is NO WRONG WAY to build a model railroad, if the end results satisfy the builders expectations.

There are so many things wrong with the conditions set forth by the letter writers mindset. for one thing EVERY model railroad is a caricature, that’s because every model railroad is an INTERPRETATION of reality. Unless you of course build an exact scaled down 1;1 model of an actual section of a real railroad which of course would be physically impossible to do in most cases because of the shear sizes of area involved. So we pick and chose what we model, then we compress the actual scale to fit an area and we then depict according to our own unique visions what it is we wish to display, IOWs a caricature of a reality. There’s no way around that.

The other thing is, just who’s vision is correct, I’m sure any one can look at a certain prototype based MR and say “that wasn’t there at that time, or that’s in the wrong place, or that building is the wrong shade of tan” It can get really ridiculous. I’ve seen model airplane wonks get into a near fistfight over who had the “more correct” version of F-14 #354 of squadron VF-14 off the aircraft carrier Independence as it was on June 7, 1979. I mean it can get just as seriously silly with train wonks.

I personally feel if your going to do the prototype thingy-wingy its way better to capture the feel and atmosphere of a line or era, instead of worrying about being so anal to a prototype as to wonder whether Joe’s ham sandwich on the counter of the dispatchers office at the station in Pigsjaw Tennessee on the NW RR row as its modeled on your layout at precisely 12:42pm on July 29, 1949 should have onions modeled on it.

George Sellios was a master at capturing “feel and atmosphere”, but lately even he’s caving to the uber-realists.

Wow, Vic, say what you mean, don’t beat around the bush…

First of all, I said that there is no wrong answer, I just asked what is your idea of a great garden railroad. Then, I put forth one man’s idea (not necessarily my own) as a springboard for discussion. I think that Herb’s ideas have at least as much merit as yours, don’t you? Nowhere did I mention prototype, Herb just says that he likes “realism,” and then went on to define it as a railroad with a purpose.

I like my sandwiches without onions, but that’s just me.

So… Vic… What is your idea of a great garden railroad? You haven’t said.

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Outdoor%20Overall%201.jpg)

:wink:

#15

Works for me.

#16

A great garden railway is the one YOU built in your back yard…

#17

The only definitive answer is, “Whatever kind of RR you enjoy building/operating the most.”

Everything else is all extremely subjective. Everyone gets something different out of the hobby, and likes or dislikes different aspects.

If you narrow the definition of “great” to mean, “layouts that become popular with a fairly large number of people”, my #1 suggestion would be, whatever you choose to do, do it well.

#18

What makes a great Garden Railway? I think it’s what you like that makes it great.

Here’s what I like, opinions may very.

-Neat, I don’t like weeds and junk laying around.

-A theme. I don’t care for fairy garden meets the construction site meets princess castle meets sci fi.

-Don’t overdue the theme. Sometimes less is more.

-Good operation. If your train derails every five feet, why? Just why?

-I don’t like garden railroads. I like railroads outside, you can keep the flowers.

-I like old growth plants.

-I like shade.

-I like rocks and bridges and stuff to make the train go in and out of sight.

-I like operations

Like I said, opinions most likely will vary. Do what you like and like what you do.

Terry

#19

I wouldn’t touch this topic with a 10 foot Lithuanian. Lemme just say, there are model railroads, garden railroads and garden model railroads or model garden railroads, but that sounds like the garden is a model. What’s right, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I have my faves, but I’m not sayin.’

#20

Steve Featherkile said:

Discuss.

There is no right answer.

I was going through some old GRs on a very rainy day recently, when I came across a series with the aforementioned title.

In one, Herb Chaudiere put forth his ideas. Basically, he stated that what makes a great GR is fidelity to reality. Granted, that is not everybody’s cup of tea, but it is his idea. He went on to say that smooth operation, reliability, realism and radio control help his idea of a great GR. Sound is important, he said, but realism is the key. He rejects Code 332 rail, with scale “two man size boulders” for ballast. Broad curves with spiral easements give the train a realistic appearance as it leaves the tangent. He wonders just how many garden railroaders have actually “walked the track on a real railroad and have seen just what the track and its surroundings look like.”

He echoes the oft mentioned sobriquet that no GR is ever finished, and “nothing on them can ever be considered permanent.”

He says that a great GR must go somewhere and do something, in other words, it must have a reason for existing.

So… What, in your opinion, makes for a great Garden Railway?

Herb sums it up very nicely, I couldn’t agree more.

OTOH to each his /her own … and a little bit more for me.