Large Scale Central

"Fixing" the AristoCraft Streamliners

Modeling Rolling stock
#1

I like to run a consist of three AristoCraft streamliners behind their FA/FB combination. These cars service the route from Lizard Lane to the aerial tram and have a modified figure 8 route that runs to as much as a 2.5% grade.

Anyone who has tried to run these streamliners over less than near perfect track has found they are prone to derailment. I attribute this to the way the trucks are mounted that allow no lateral movement, combined with the extended length of these cars. If the track tips to one side, that truck and the car above must also tip, and this action is transmitted through the body to the other truck, which may be on track that is tipping to the other side.

The trucks are held with two screws that allow for and aft pivot, but side tilt is prohibited by the shape of the mounting pads (flat on flat) as well as the underchassis detail. Actually even fore and aft pivot is limited if you run Kadees because if they are too loose, the Kadee “glad hands” can dig into the ballast causing derailments.

So, I propose to buy a piece of rubberized gasket material and use the laser to cut some washers to mount between the trucks and chassis. This would raise the body by the width of the washer, but would allow for tilt in any direction getting the underbody detail off of the trucks. If this raises the body objectionably, there is an established method to lower the body on the chassis, that many people do anyway.

I’ll try to get to it next week.

#2

Once I changed out the springs, so the trucks can actually flex a bit, I don’t have that much of a problem with mine. When I do, then I know I have a section of wonky track that I need to fix.

#3

Any chance you can body mount? If your approach grades have enough transition might be possible, removes a lot of thrust from the trucks caused by couplers.

#4

Possibilities…, but the washers would be the easiest and cheapest way to go, and if they work, the least work involved and just perhaps, marketable.

#5

David Maynard said:

Once I changed out the springs, so the trucks can actually flex a bit, I don’t have that much of a problem with mine. When I do, then I know I have a section of wonky track that I need to fix.

What did you use for the replacements?

#6

Todd,

I have some questions about your trackage:
(1) Does the track include opposing vertical twists in it?
(2) Are there “S” bends without a straight section there between?
(3) Does the track include curves that are tighter than 8 foot diameter?

My track work is pretty good and does not suffer from the above constraints.

I lowered the Aristo-Craft streamliners and installed body mount couplers. If interested, see vignette, title:
“Aristo Streamliners - Lowering & Body Mounting Kadee 907 Centerset Couplers”

A Union Pacific 7 car train pulled by 2 Aristo E8s can be seen traversing loops, grades and some “S” bends in a Video.

-Ted

#7

#1 - Apparently yes to some extent.

#2 - No.

#3 - No.

#8

Actually, looking at the link, this very problem is discussed under the topic of “Factory Bolster” but my idea was never discussed as a possible solution.

#9

Todd, From what I understand of your idea, I believe I did something similar with respect to the Aristo-Craft Heavyweight cars, albeit with a few variations as shown in the following:

See vignette, title / subtitle:
“Aristo Heavyweight Passenger Car & Body Mount Kadee 907s - Preliminary Preparation”

See vignette, title:
“Aristo-Craft Heavyweight Passenger car 3 axle truck types Vignette”

Scroll down to:
“Observations about wheels and bearings”

See vignette, title:
“Napa Valley Wine Train Vignette”, Heavyweight cars changed from 2 axle trucks to 3 axle trucks

Scroll down to:
“How to identify Aristo’s New and Old design type 3 axle trucks”

-Ted

#10

Yes, similar idea. I’m thinking that rubber may work better because it will allow for flex whereas a metal washer doesn’t. I was also think maybe a even a metal washer with rubber subwasher. Either gets the trucks away from the interference points.

#11

The truck still must be able to rotate freely without binding. In this regard, it would seem rubber washer/s would prevent free rotation of the truck whether located at the bolster pivot post or at the arc post inviting derailment going in and out curve track and through turnouts with wheel flanges prone to picking its points.

-Ted

#12

Not really proposing “rubber” per se, but composite gasket material. More of a rubberized cork. This material is immune to any oil and can be slick with a surface coating of grease. We’ll see.

#13

There is possibly a “Kit” becoming available, which solves all the problems with the Aristo Stream Liner, passenger car problems. So far the extensive testing has proven that the “kit” works well, and 7 cars have been converted successfully.

It will be a basic screw driver fix, with the only major modification, being the cutting off of the coupler arm.

It will:

Provide body mounting of Kadee 906/831 couplers…including “Closer” coupling (Minimum of 5 foot radius curves)

Lowering of the car

Proper centre mounting of the trucks.

Body mounting of the coupler on the rear of the observation car.

When the “Manufacturer”, is happy with the test results, and has the time; there may be an announcement.

Young Dave Marconi will be able to examine the product first hand, at the “Invasion of Friends”, and possibly meet the manufacturer.

Fred Mills

#14

For a sneak peak, I created and posted a new album showing some of the cars during on of the tests at the Arnprior Train Show this past June. See my album: Aristocraft Streamliner Modifications.

Thanks, Fred

The manufacturer

#15

Todd Brody said:

I like to run a consist of three AristoCraft streamliners behind their FA/FB combination. These cars service the route from Lizard Lane to the aerial tram and have a modified figure 8 route that runs to as much as a 2.5% grade.

Anyone who has tried to run these streamliners over less than near perfect track has found they are prone to derailment. I attribute this to the way the trucks are mounted that allow no lateral movement, combined with the extended length of these cars. If the track tips to one side, that truck and the car above must also tip, and this action is transmitted through the body to the other truck, which may be on track that is tipping to the other side.

The trucks are held with two screws that allow for and aft pivot, but side tilt is prohibited by the shape of the mounting pads (flat on flat) as well as the underchassis detail. Actually even fore and aft pivot is limited if you run Kadees because if they are too loose, the Kadee “glad hands” can dig into the ballast causing derailments.

So, I propose to buy a piece of rubberized gasket material and use the laser to cut some washers to mount between the trucks and chassis. This would raise the body by the width of the washer, but would allow for tilt in any direction getting the underbody detail off of the trucks. If this raises the body objectionably, there is an established method to lower the body on the chassis, that many people do anyway.

I’ll try to get to it next week.

Staying on topic as suggested by the EXPERTS only after re-reading twice before posting.

Good luck Todd and will be interested in your results.

I personally did mine differently but there is more than one way to cook an egg

This post has been edited by: Rooster

#16

Greg Elmassian said:

Any chance you can body mount?

Absolutely …not hard

#17

Fred Mills. said:

There is possibly a “Kit” becoming available, which solves all the problems with the Aristo Stream Liner, passenger car problems. So far the extensive testing has proven that the “kit” works well, and 7 cars have been converted successfully.

It will be a basic screw driver fix, with the only major modification, being the cutting off of the coupler arm.

It will:

Provide body mounting of Kadee 906/831 couplers…including “Closer” coupling (Minimum of 5 foot radius curves)

Lowering of the car

Proper centre mounting of the trucks.

Body mounting of the coupler on the rear of the observation car.

When the “Manufacturer”, is happy with the test results, and has the time; there may be an announcement.

Young Dave Marconi will be able to examine the product first hand, at the “Invasion of Friends”, and possibly meet the manufacturer.

Fred Mills

Old hat Fred

#18

a sneak peak,

on of the tests

Old hat Fred

Doesn’t sound “old hat” to me. It sounds more like an ongoing development and testing of a new product. So ya lost me Da…Rooster.

#19

David Maynard said:

a sneak peak,

on of the tests

Old hat Fred

Doesn’t sound “old hat” to me. It sounds more like an ongoing development and testing of a new product. So ya lost me Da…Rooster.

Did it years ago Maynard …but only posted on LSC when everyone else was more focused on the other train sites that USED to exist. Bet the thread still stands if you search?

#20

Three more Aristo Stream lined coaches have been converted successfully.

Fred Mills