Large Scale Central

"Conductor" rail clamps gone?

Track and Trestles
#1

Is Al Kramer’s on-line site that lists ROLL EZ wheels and the “Conductor” stainless rail clamps (the 4-screw and plate item) still in business? I want to order the clamps (GASP!) as I have had it with the soldering gambit and have heard they absolutely work indefinitely.

Are they still being made and is the site still active? The site reports they (Al ?) does not take phone calls.

The question comes from E-Bay showing some used ones SOLD.

The E-Bay Ana Kramer site had 7 pages of “G” products - no listing of these track connectors

Thanks,

Wendell

#2

Wendell: you got a picture of what you are asking about? A plate with 4 large head hex screws? Paul

#3

Wendell Hanks said:

Is Al Kramer’s on-line site that lists ROLL EZ wheels and the “Conductor” stainless rail clamps (the 4-screw and plate item) still in business? I want to order the clamps (GASP!) as I have had it with the soldering gambit and have heard they absolutely work indefinitely.

Are they still being made and is the site still active? The site reports they (Al ?) does not take phone calls.

The question comes from E-Bay showing some used ones SOLD.

The E-Bay Ana Kramer site had 7 pages of “G” products - no listing of these track connectors

Thanks,

Wendell

Wendell,

I am curious how you are soldering the stainless steel rail that you have and why you are tied of it? There are other manufacturers out there like split jaw. But I’m more curious as to how you were soldering the stainless rail and do you have pictures of such. When you do solder the stainless rail do you solder in 15’ to 20’ lengths for flexibility ? Are you not concerned that rail clamps will damage the the ties as the rail moves inward on the curves causing the ties to push out? Soldering will not cause this ?

Thoughts on this matter?

Wendell Hanks said:

I have been working replacing defective, broken, cracked, and unusable track ties. The worst of the experience is stainless track wants to and willfully move inward on curves IF the tie “tabs” are not keeping the track to wheel-width dimension. I am Very IRRITATED at the track ties tabs giving way from the sun and then the rails close in and the derailments occur – and they happen at the wrong time. You know, just when the family reunion breaks to the request “Hey, Wendell, put on the trains - love to see 'em run.”

Is there ANY brand NOW made that will withstand the Southern California sun and not, for any other word, crap out after two years max? Yes, I ran out of the before LGB corporate saga ties I bought years ago. Yes, I painted them to protect them further from the UV, EV, and other sun debilitating initials, and they have lasted MUCH longer than the corporate demise Aristo-Craft ties. They literally fell apart.

OK, I yield the floor. What has lasted for you in sunny, warm (hot) conditions? PIKO? New LGB?

#4

Rooster and others-

The clamps are used on both stainless and brass rail. Only the brass (LGB-Aristo) has soldered jumpers - at least 80%. Stainless, no soldering. The claim is this invention by Al Kramer absolutely stops the problem of electrical continuity. Yes, they are absolutely unrealistic and I will put them where they are not overtly visible. Frankly, I have gotten to the point I don’t care like I did 13 years ago.

If you go to ROLL-EZ’s website - how old, I don’t know - you will see pictures.

So the question is are they still manufactured and has anyone ordered them - if so, how?

Thanks.

#5

Wendell,

Did you email Al Kramer and find out if he is still selling them?

[email protected]

#6

From Al Kramer - July 5th - he states that the stainless “Conductor” rail clamps will be available in two weeks.

Curious as to their appearance? Check the ROLL-EZ site and you will see pictures of the clamps. I have some on our 400’ layout. While they are not prototypical, they do work. I also suggest spray painting ties and rails with Rustoleum’s plastic compatible spray cans available at Home Depot - for UV-EV-etc. sun damage inhibitor. Note the word inhibitor. I use a tan color. Pushing along a file folder under the track acts as a spraying mask - the sprayed paint is an easy rag-wipe removal from track surfaces when still wet.

#7

They do not work as well as the SJ in my opinion, but they are cheaper.

Notice how they “cock” (not you rooster!) to one side in the picture below? This is because you cannot tighten all screws down at the same time.

Look at the one on the left, it is rotated a bit clockwise.

On the positive side, you can really get them to “bite” into the rail. I would NOT use them over the joiner, countless people have proven that over the joiner clamps do not work well… you want continuity between the rails, not between a joiner and the clamp, which does nothing by itself.

Another concern is that if you try to use these on rails without joiners, then the rails won’t automatically align themselves.

So I do not recommend them at all. This does not mean they cannot help, but I can only see them used over the joiner, which eventually fails.

Greg

#8

I tried them once and the stainless screws galled to the point of snapping off. Worst clamps I ever tried. Like Greg, I recommend Split Jaw clamps. Hillman type would be a second choice, although they sometime snap at the rail groove.

#9

I went with Hillman’s when I started replacing the failed Aristo joiners. I have seen these type clamps that Wendel wants, but to me they just look awful. That’s just my opinion, you may not agree. Also, I agree with Greg, when I saw them on a set up at a train show, they all were crooked, and some were only hanging onto the one rail with one screw.

When my Hillman’s clamps started fracturing, I went with the split jaw. I think they are really good clamps.

As a side note, the first batch of Hillman’s that I bought/used are still working just fine. It seams that its the later batches that fracture. Maybe something changed in material or manufacture that is causing that issue.

#10

Wendell,

Let me weigh in on this topic. Our club uses these heavily for our road show setups, primarily because they are very quick to clamp and remove…providing the screws don’t gall as Joe stated above. The cause of the galling is the eccentric loading on the screw in the plate when the tangent edge of the screw head contacts the sloped surface of the rail base. If the purpose is to make a very tight joint, you will…one time, then the screw will gall and most likely be frozen in place. Use of a copper based anti seize will help, but is not a cure all.

Replacing the screws with either plain steel or brass will eliminate the galling problem all together. There has been discussion on this before and the subject of galvanic action has risen. I have not experienced such, but then our stuff in indoors and not exposed to the weather for long periods of time. My reference is to replace the screws with brass. The brass is softer than the stainless steel plate and has a lower meting point. So long as you can remove the plate from the track, the buggered brass screw can be removed with a torch by melting the brass screw, then chase the threads with a tap and install a new screw.

Personally, I agree with Greg and others, go with a Hillman or Split Jaw.

Bob C.

#11

listen to Master Bob C., you will glade you did. Paul

#12

A good tip, if you go with SS screws in a SS plate, coat the threads with anti-sieze (car parts store) and that will pretty much eliminate the galling. I have started this on the screws on my SJ.

Outdoors you really want metals that don’t corrode, so you naturally gravitate to all SS, but as Bob pointed out, same metal on both sides under pressure you are asking for galling.

I use either anti-sieze or the special anti-corrosion grease used for aluminum wiring, and have had good results with my SJ SS clamps.

Too bad Hillman is no longer, they made some nice end of track stops and they made the best lift out bridge clamps.

Greg

#13

Please excuse my ignorance but what is “galling”?

#14

Tony Walsham said:

Please excuse my ignorance but what is “galling”?

From Wikipedia…

Galling is a form of wear caused by adhesion between sliding surfaces. When a material galls, some of it is pulled with the contacting surface, especially if there is a large amount of force compressing the surfaces together. Galling is caused by a combination of friction and adhesion between the surfaces, followed by slipping and tearing of crystal structure beneath the surface. This will generally leave some material stuck or even friction welded to the adjacent surface, whereas the galled material may appear gouged with balled-up or torn lumps of material stuck to its surface.

Galling is most commonly found in metal surfaces that are in sliding contact with each other. It is especially common where there is inadequate lubrication between the surfaces. However, certain metals will generally be more prone to galling, due to the atomic structure of their crystals. For example, aluminium is a metal that will gall very easily, whereas annealed (softened) steel is slightly more resistant to galling. Steel that is fully hardened is very resistant to galling.

Galling is a common problem in most applications where metals slide while in contact with other metals. This can happen regardless of whether the metals are the same or of different kinds. Metals such as brass are often chosen for bearings, bushings, and other sliding applications because of their resistance to galling, as well as other forms of mechanical abrasion.

#15

I emailed Al Kramer and reported the “galling” observation on Tracks and Trestles Large Scale Central site.

Here is his response:

"I don’t have time to get on forums but the last batch were not up to our standards and the had to refund half the run. I have samples from the new company in China and they were perfect. There should be no more problems. I’m getting 10,000 and testing a batch from each case top and bottom before I pay the balance over deposit. "

#16

I also prefer the Hillmans clamps but I have a bunch of these from back when they were brass being sold out of San-Val. they DO work, but like Joe says you can get big misalignments if you don’t torque down the screws in the right order. But that said I used them on my old indoor layout, particularly in locations out of visual site. They were great to use as track power connectors as you could install them directly over the joiners. I’m pretty sure my current buried layout also uses a couple of them for power connections.

#17

Tony,

My best answer to that question is:

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article%20-%20Galling.pdf

Bob C.

#18

The galling I have experienced goes all the way back to conductors purchased by my club before I joined the club in 2007. I will admit that different grades of stainless steel will resing in different levels fo galling, and there are many grades of stainless steel. Considering Al is purchasing from China, i suspect there is no real means for him to receive a metallurgical report on teh grade utilized in the manufacture of him products, and if he could most of us would not be able to afforrd the product.

Used with steel or brass screws, the stainless steel plates should last indeffinately, as the steel or brass will not gall rendering the plate useless. Even using alternate materials for the screws, I would still recommend an anti seize on the threads of the fastener. I consider it cheap insurance. If appearance is important, I would recommend the brass as it will dull over time and become less noticable than a rusty screw next to the patina on your brass rail. If the rail is stainless, the muted brass will still be less noticable than rusty steel.

For what it is worth, the galling of stainless steel fasteners is a well know issue among any engineering/manufacturing/maintenance folks, and has bee since I began my career in the engineering profession some 45 years ago. Read the paper by Fastenal above (a well known fastener supplier). When Al created those clamps they may have been the best alternative to common rail joiners, but today there are better options.

Bob C.

#19

On July 18th I received this email from Al Kramer.

Tomorrow 10,000 of my “Conductor” track locks finally arrive. 5 cartons of 2000 each. Prior to offering them for sale I am taking random samples from top and bottom of each carton and testing them for accuracy. If all is well I will then start selling them and pay for them. I have a large shipment from Bachmann arriving early morning and the Fed-X shipment of “Conductors” should arrive around noon. I should have them tested by 4pm and will notify all my customers of the acceptability at that time and also start listing them on eBay. Thank you—AL KRAMER