Large Scale Central

Quick, simple and low cost answer to troubles with Aristo WR swi

Track and Trestles
#1

So far, we here with the OVGRS have been able to improve greatly, the performance over Aristo WR switches, for almost no cost, and very little labour.

The first thing that can be done before ever looking at the switches themselves is to check the gauge of all the wheel sets of your equipment, before ever touching the switches. We use the Kadee wheel guage, as our standard. Whether it agrees with any other standards is not my problem, or neither do I wish to get into a debate on standards. But as far as wheels and track, just like the real railroads, you have to have some standard for your equipment, or there will be nothing but frustrations and derailments.

The next thing we do is to remove the plastic guard rails on the WR switches, using an exacto knife whith a sharp blade. If you have the earlier style of WR switches, you remove the existing brass guard rail.

The brass guard rails just need a good filing of the base of the rail, untill it is close enough to the stock rail, to be within the proper distance…use the Aristo track gauge “Guard Rail gauge” to establish that. Then widen the existing holes in the ties in order to replace the screws.

On the switches with the plastic guard rails, you just need to cut a proper length of Aluminium rail, and bend it to conform with the curve of the stock rail, then file the base to get the proper gauge. Then drill two holes and using screws that you can get from Aristo, in their screw collection, attach the guard rail after tapping the hole. We use Aluminium rail as it is easier to work with than brass.

This bit of work seems to solve most of the major probles, but remember that the switches are far from great.
You might note that if you measure the frog angle, and by the looks of the irregular path of gauge through the straights of the frog; they seem to be attempting to use the same frog, which appears to have a #4 frog angle; for both their "2 foot radius curved switch, and the Wide Radius one. This goes against all engineering practices, as the frog angle should change, between the two.

Unless you have some wheel sets with flanges that are deeper than the current B’mann, or Aristo ones, the frog does not have to be replaced, unless of course you are attempting to run equipment through the switches at 1000 scale miles an hour…!!!

The other change we make, although it would not work with track power, is to replace the throw bar with a piece of brass strip; properly drilled and using the existing screws. We do not use the Aristo or LGB switch throws, so we simply drill another hole on either or both ends of the throw bar fo the spring wire attachment.

You will be able to see pictures of our “Rebuilt” Aristo WR switches on our web page, soon, and also a few pictures of our latest Choke cable stand up switch throws.
…see them at: www.ovgrs.org/

If you have any questions; call me or see me on the chat page

#2

Thanks Fred :smiley:

For those of us that still use track power (about 75% of my fleet) you could substitute a nice thick piece of acrylic for the throw bar. You might need to find longer screws.

I’ve got a bunch of the WR switches. Only one gives me a ton of trouble, the others are passable as delivered, but I’ll try your guard rail fix.

Besides the frog angle, are you satisfied with the depth of the frog? Some have suggested filing down the bottom of the frog so the wheels actually ride on the tread through the frog, instead of the flange. Mine bump a little as the flanges ride up the ramp and through the frog, but that doesn’t really bother me that much. Never caused a derailment.

My problems have always been picking points which the guard rail upgrade should fix.

#3

We only see any noticible bump, at the frog, when a train is travelling too durn fast…the guard rail fix prevents the flange from hitting the frog, which is the major reason for most of the “Bump” action, not the depth of the frog.

The reason we use brass for the throw bars is that we want something definately UV protected, that is not likely to give us any future problems. It is a more permanent “Fix”

#4

We now have an ongoing switch upgrade project. We rebuild switches ahead of time, and as we do any track upgrades, or find faults; we replace the existing switches with the upgraded ones. The replaced switches then are upgraded and put in stock for the the next upgrade project. I think we try to keep at least three of each (Left and Right) in stock at all times.

#5
Jon Radder said:
Besides the frog angle, are you satisfied with the depth of the frog? Some have suggested filing down the bottom of the frog so the wheels actually ride on the tread through the frog, instead of the flange.
I am going to try that on one of my Aristo R switches. I have had a few problems when backing a train, even straight through. Ralph
#6

Ralph;

before you start “Grinding” away on the frog; try fixing the guard rail problem. We proved that it is the major problem, and the easiest to perform.

But of course check the wheel gauge on all your cars also.

Most tracking problems on Aristo switches are a combination of situations; extreme variance of wheel gauge, and the wide guard rails. Most "bumping action at the frog is due to the flanges hitting the frog itself, not the depth of the frog.

I know I will be chastised for this view, but few people ever actually see what is happening on a switch, that causes the problems, and only get a patial view. Then they blame the wrong thing for the major problem.

Clear up the gauge of the guard rail first…that’s my suggestion

#7

I will go with your advice, Fred. You have studied the situation more than I.
Ralph

#8

'stead of grinding the frog, you can loosen the little tie screws underneath and shove a couple #4 flat washers under the rail. Some say this will push the rails up to the frog making a bump, but which is going to move, those HARD brass or stainless rails or the floppy plastic.

When the train appears to climb over the switch, it’s almost always 'cause the wheel gauge is too narrow.

I haven’t tried adjusting the guard rails.

The only wide radius switch I ever had much trouble with had a burr on one of the points that would catch the flange and roll the wheel up over the rail. Only took a moment with a tiny file to remedy.

Oddly, many of these work very nicely right out of the box.

#9

You can simply shim the WR guard rail with some plastic to get it back to .106", or use brass shim.

I flatten the frogs so they are level with the rails around them, I have a method that takes about 20 seconds and can be done with the switch in place.

The wing rail flangeways are too shallow before you trim the frog, so they should be deepened.

Maybe this page on all the mods would help: http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86&Itemid=96

Regards, Greg

#10

There are some who say it’s a sin to bring up old threads, but this one needs to be dragged up, so we can see how Greg’s fix has worked.

One of you guys in Sandy Eggo County jiggle Greg’s elbow and ask him how his fix of gluing some .020 styrene onto the guard rail has worked, and how has it held up over the 3.5 - 4 years since he did the fix.

I want to fix my wide radius switches, and if I can get 4 years or so out of some glue and styrene, I will probably give that a go.

#11

I never understood the hate for bringing up old threads…

#12
Steve Featherkile said:
There are some who say it's a sin to bring up old threads, but this one needs to be dragged up, so we can see how Greg's fix has worked.

One of you guys in Sandy Eggo County jiggle Greg’s elbow and ask him how his fix of gluing some .020 styrene onto the guard rail has worked, and how has it held up over the 3.5 - 4 years since he did the fix.

I want to fix my wide radius switches, and if I can get 4 years or so out of some glue and styrene, I will probably give that a go.


I can’t answer for Greg, but I have operated up at Fred’s and he applies the same fix, and with operating sessions every week, they nary have a problem with the switches up there.

#13

There is a lot to be said for “weekly operations”. Problems are resolved one at a time, but they accumulate over time, so when you haven’t run for awhile, it seems like there are lots of problems. But when you run often, there doesn’t seem to be as many problems. Because they are repaired as individual problems at individual locations and not lots of track problems and they don’t gang up on you.

#14

In my postings to this thread I have mentioned “Wheels hitting the frog”…I meant to say “…hitting THE POINT OF THE FROG”…and I do agree that shimming the guard rails does work very well. Shimming with Styrene shim stock has one problem…what “Glue” to use…for a permanent fix…using a bent piece of brass is better.
We use the permanent fix…replacing the guard rail once and for all.

Yes, Ric; regular operation sure brings out any faults in track or rolling stock. It also brings on frustration, leading to less desire to run a train, let alone attempt any operations.

There is nothing worse than to have constant derailments…solid roadbed; good track components, proper track laying principles, and well maintained rolling stock (Couplers, wheel gauge, and mounting of trucks) make for FUN in vast quantities, rather than frustration by the pailfull…

I have met many people who have left the hobby, of outdoor LS railroading, due to FRUSTRATION, caused by constant derailments. Many of us have also observed that the # one cause was traced back to poor standards of the basic ROADBED.
Too many people are led to being devoted to what the roadbed looks like…using roadbed that looks like the real thing, but is not up to a standard that supports the MODEL RAILROAD track in a manner that functions well, without a lot of constant maintenance.
Having tried every possible type of roadbed, over MANY, many years…frustration is NOT what keeps me in the hobby…

#15

I understand that Fr Fred uses aluminum rail in his guard rail fixes, but my question is directed at Greg. Greg uses .020 styrene, and “Plastruct Bondene liquid, which is a styrene and ABS plastic solvent glue” that seems to work well for him.

My question is, how does it work over 3 - 4 years?

#16
Fred Mills said:
... I know I will be chastised for this view, but few people ever actually see what is happening on a switch, that causes the problems, and only get a patial view. Then they blame the wrong thing for the major problem.

Clear up the gauge of the guard rail first…that’s my suggestion


Well, you won’t get chastised by me, Fred, that’s for sure. My own findings are identical to yours: the problem is those guard rails, which allow the flanges to strike the frog. Your fix will solve it.

The flangeway depth around the frog is not generally a problem. I would avoid deepening it. That is likely to create further bumping at the frog.

Before I fiddle with any trackage, however, like you, I bring all my wheelsets into conformity. It’s the first thing I do with any equipment.

Once you’ve got all those wheelsets consistent in gauge, fixing the switches as or similar to Fred’s suggestions will pay off handsomely.

#17

I’ve known of the guard rail fix for a while. My recent problem is cars picking facing points. I’m still using the Aristo switch machines. Might try a more positive throw and see if that fixes it. I also need to check wheel gauge as it is new cars that have the problem most often.

#18

Jon; check your three point bolster suspension also…but take sharp file to the pointrails too…the fit of them is usually quite crude…

#19

Got this from Greg…

Greg E. said:
The brass shim with the ends curled over the ends of the plastic guardrail worked better.

The styrene held for a while, but glue does not hold well over time, the
plastic is a bit too slippery. The brass is more resistant to wear also.

Final comment is cutting the brass to a particular width allows you to
compensate for the cases when the guard rail is lower than the stock rails
(happens).

Hope this helps,

Greg


So, I guess I won’t use the styrene/glue method. I am trying one switch with replacing the guard rail with aluminum rail to see how that works. Film at 11.

Typing with one finger in a splint really sucks. I strained the extensor tendons to the distal phalanx of the ring finger of my right hand, which means that I can’t fully extend that finger. As long as the tendons are in the same county, they will heal, but I have to keep the finger straight so the tendons heal properly. I’m cheap, so I’m using a spoon as a splint rather than bugging my doc.