Large Scale Central

Questions on new Revo

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

I am still trying to figure out this new Revo system and could use some help.

I have a aristo RS3 torn apart on my bench right now doing a remodel and repaint and I was thinking about adding in a Revo.

Without getting to technical on me…

I am using a Aristo TE with a Crest switching transformer that under the “G” setting puts out 23 volts 12 amps.

If I get the Revo and base station can I use this transformer?

Will the base station act like my TE in that I can run several trains at once on my RR but not with independent control unless I add a Revo receiver into each loco. Is that correct?

What if I setup one engine with a receiver but still want to run other engines without a receiver? What about at the same time?

Does the base unit put a constant voltage to the track and the onboard receiver picks up what it needs to run depending on what the transmitter tells it to?

I’m trying to wrap my head around this system but the websites that sell these all seem to have the same generic info.

1 Will the base station work with my Crest transformer?

2 Can I run several engines without receivers from the base unit knowing that the “emergency stop” shuts down everything on the track like it does with my TE?

3 Can I have one engine with a receiver installed and still run other engines without them?

Thank you

#2

Todd - your power supply should be fine with the Revolution & a base station.

That setup (with the base station’s output to the track) will work just like the old Train Engineer - you can have multiple trains on the track but all will get the same voltage and may run at different speeds.

If you have the above running and add a loco with an internal Revo receiver it will work but changes in speed to the non-Revo locos through the base station will effect the Revo equipped one, too, as its input voltage will vary.

Hope that helps - I am sure others have experience with what you are asking and will chime in with their observations.

dave

#3

As I remember Dave, you tested the Revo to see if it was fed PWM at less than full “voltage” (really PWM is always variable width pulses of full voltage) would the onboard Revo “freak out”.

It’s on your site right?

I would assume that at some very low “speed” from a base station attached to the track, that the on board Revo would not be happy.

Greg

#4

That is what I wanted to hear David. When I run multiple trains on my TE the diesels run faster than a Bachmann steamer which makes it interesting when trains catch up to one another and need to be held up or put on a siding to let the other pass.

If I choose to run only the Revo equipped engine with the base station will the transmitter “talk” with the engine or with the base station or both?

If operating through the base will I be able to blow the horn on a sound equipped receiver in the engine?

Of course what Greg wrote is concerning. Does the “freak out” have to do with my transformer? Is the Revo more like a poor mans DCC where power is a constant voltage and the board picks up what it is told to by the operator?

I know the Revo is made for track power but is it better suited for battery?

Thank you

#5

Todd Haskins said:

{snip} I know the Revo is made for track power but is it better suited for battery?

Thank you

Hi Todd… When I was using the REVOLUTION, I used it exclusively with battery power totally isolated from the track pickups. I used the REVO in G gauge locomotives of all types and even in a number of O gauge applications where I would mount the battery and receiver in a box car behind the engines. It worked wonderfully in all applications.

Even though I’ve sold most of my G gauge stuff, I still run a Bachmann Thomas with the G gauge receiver and a Hartland MACK with an HO Diesel sound receiver with battery power.

#6

Todd / Greg- for more details on some experiments I did a few years ago see:

http://www.trainelectronics.com/ART5700TrainEngineerRevolution/TrackSideRevolution/BaseDrivesAnother.htm

dave

#7

Hi Dave I did read your tests but I don’t know if they changed from the first and sec. gen. when they pulled the fuse out. The reason i say this i have run and some others have run on a club track with 2nd.gen. base and we have rev. in our locs. and run them. i can not tell you if i run the base up full or not. Also i do know the new PWC base does not like the passive PWC to linear board and been told do not use it and they do not sell it anymore. I thank i’ll put that bridge in anyway thanks.

cheers Richard

#8

Richard - I would surely try it with the bridge rectifier board - cheap insurance!

Let us know how it goes

dave

#9

Since the revo base station puts out pulses at full track voltage, I would GUESS that an on board receiver could possibly work if one was to add a bridge rectifier and filter cap between the track and the onboard receiver.

Todd, try this and let us know the results.

#10

You can also put the PWC–>Linear converter in line to remove virtually all vestiges of the PWC (PWM) pulses.

I wrote this up some time ago here: http://www.trainelectronics.com/ART5700TrainEngineerRevolution/PWC--Linear_CRE57091/index.htm

You can easily make your own as the parts are readily available and the circuit is quite simple

dave

#11

Yes Dave that is why it worked on the club layout it has converter on it. But this will not work with the new PWC base, so he should buy the new linear base and he should be fine right?

#12

Richard - not sure what you mean by “but this will not work with the new PWC base”

Any of the base stations should be OK with the converter on their output

dave

#13

Trust me Dave it will not work with the new PWC base it causes a overload. I called Navin and asked and he said no way to use it with the new pwc base.

cheers richard

#14

That is good to know, Richard - I am not sure what the issue is but I’ll keep it in mind… Thanks!

dave

#15

You guys are losing me here. The main reasons I’m considering the Revo is the cost, the sound control and the ease of install. I’m not an electronics guy at all but I do know how to open up an engine and cut into a few wires.

What I don’t know about is adding rectifiers, PWC bases, filter caps and whatever else that might be needed.

Doesn’t anyone make a system that can be wired in without all this extra stuff being required?

Basic sound with the ability to control the horn and bell is what I’m after. Eventually I would consider battery RC operation on one or 2 engines.

The last thing I want to do is spend more money on sound and control than I did on the whole engine.

#16

Todd you are right. The reason I started to ask questions was so you would not buy the wrong things You were answered about your power supply

and the part that goes into your loc. is ok you just have to say what sound. Now is the base, there now two base stations as Dave has said the on board receiver does not like PWC . One of the bases is PWC and the other is the linear base station. The linear base is the one you need. If i am wrong please Dave say so.

cheers richard

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#17

Dave:

The issue is that for some reason the new base station views the PWC > Linear converter as an overload, I’m pretty sure it is a hypersensitive short circuit detection circuit, and it’s sensing the filter caps as a short.

There’s not much else that could make a filter look like an overload.

On the Crest Everest power supply, it would shut down trying to power up my NCE DCC system, even with no load on the rails. Same thing, short circuit detection tripped by charging filter caps in a power supply.

Greg

#18

To cheat that, couldn’t you put a resistor inline to the filter. Maybe with a toggle switch to bypass the inline resistor, once the caps had a moment or two to “fill up”.

#19

Probably would do the trick. It might be as simple as a 1 ohm resistor, and there’s very little loss leaving it in. (10 amps would only lose 1 volt)

But the point is that this should not be the situation. You should not have to experiment to get something to work, especially with a product you already developed (the PWC to linear board).

I got a free Crest Everest from Lewis Polk as I mentioned before, he was thinking it would be a great DCC supply. I used it as a door stop until I gave it away to Ted. Went on overload every time I turned it on.

This is something that testing during development should find.

Greg

#20

The Crest power supply (CRE-55465) I got from Greg always went into overload in my setup, so I got a problem free Mean Well power supply to replace it.

I took the analog ammeter out of the Crest power supply to put in my setup, but it was such poor quality so I purchased one to replace that, too.

Shown below is my Revo 15 amp base station setup, including Mean Well power supply.

Revo 15 amp Base Station Setup

-Ted