Large Scale Central

Question for the plow jocky experts

Problem Solving
#1

I just watched Eric’s great videos of plowing with his steamers. It seemed they had no problem pushing his plow around his layout.

I have always thought that I needed a very powerful and heavy engine and a heavy plow. I chose an Aristo SD45 with the fuel tank weight and an Aristo wedge plow loaded with crushed stone. The rig is extremely heavy…

After watching Eric’s video I got to thinking that maybe my plow is too heavy. I’d never attempt to push it with my LS Shay as currently configured - but if it were lighter that just might work! I love running the steamer in the snow and plow service may just be the perfect use if I can get the balance right.

What do you think?

#2

I think it mostly depends on the weight of the snow. Light and fluffy versus wet and heavy snow, and how deep the snow is.

#3

Yesterday’s snow was actually quite light and fluffy (as was two years ago)…I generally need two of my steamers to push a fairly heavyweight plow to clear an inch of snow…it struggles with two and even that has to be pretty light fluffy stuff. the biggest problem is icy rails, the wheels just spin…but when all the stars ( and ice crystals) are aligned it is great fun!

there were plenty of clips that show failure but they didn’t make the cut! and last year, I am not sure I was able to plow at all.

#4

The snow that we get, here at 2700 ft in beautiful Deer Park, Wa, is often a dry powder. If there is less than three inches, I figure that I can plow. If the snow is wet and heavy (Cascade Concrete), or deeper than three inches, I don’t even try to plow.

I use two geep 9’s and the Aristo plow, full of ballast.

#5

You know, from basics, as long as you have the rolling friction under control, the weight of the cars (being harder to push) only matters up a grade.

I would submit your issues are traction… there’s large differences in traction on different rails, wheels, if you have icy conditions, etc.

Everything I have seen is make the plow heavy to keep it on the rails.

Greg

#6

Thanks for the replies. My issue is grade, and a curving one at that. The photo above is at about 3.5%. Traction also becomes an issue when even the heavy SD45 can’t push the heavy plow up the grade against a snow load. It does fine in dry conditions. Ice build up on the rails (or steam oil in the case of the steamer) also makes it tough to get up the grade.

I agree that the snow conditions are major concern. Yesterday’s snow here was wet and clung to the trees. When the sun came out it melted from the trees and dropped like wet snow bombs. Last night it all froze solid. Today I reverted to my manual plow (piece of PVC on a stick) to open the line in advance of tomorrows blizzard. Now that the big clumps and ice are broken up I’m sure most anything I have would push the plow around for clean up.

#7

I was told by someone, I don’t remember who, that the trick is to let your locomotive get cold, so the warmer wheels do not momentarily melt the snow/ice on the rail, causing a loss of traction. It seems to work for me. It takes about an hour in the snow shed for this to happen.

#8

Yes; I do that as well. I do need to build a shed over the track just as it exits the house for this purpose. Nothing fancy, just some coroplast in a U shape that I can drop over the track. I have something similar where the melting snow drips off an awning onto the track that I leave in place all winter. Just installed that today.

After manually clearing the track I ran my double ended plow train to check the track condition. Had a few issues where ice caused the plow to derail - but for the most part a successful run. This is an older pic of the plow train…

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/post3/WinterRun2013-047.JPG)

#9

Youch! 3.5% on a curve!

One thing you can do is be sure that you do not have any cross level problems there, that will help optimize traction.

With that grade and curve, you just need more horsepower.

Greg

#10

Jon,

Even though my RR is probably no more than 1.5% you know I have plowed a good bit of snow over the years. The main thing with plowing snow is what has already been said the “WEIGHT” and type of snow are huge factors and I’m sure Shawn would agree.

I do agree with Steve as well but I have also found that the ambient temp makes a big difference as well. Usually with the light fluffy snow its “really freakin cold” out and yes it plows well but the little snow that is left on the rail head freezes rapidly once you take away it’s insulation blanket.

I don’t really run much weight in the Penguin (my plow) other than a video camera or actually 1/2 of a brick.

Yesterdays snow was way to heavy (at least here) to plow let alone shovel. The biggest issues I have had is what you had and that is the icing that happens on that cold metal rail once you remove it’s blanket.

When I do plow I like to MU 3 USA geeps and usually clear a short starting point to get a run at it depending on how deep it is. I do like to run at an UNPROTOTYPICAL speed though (I know the horror of the thought) but at least it gets the line open for traffic.

#11

It’s true, he has plowed a lot, but it’s not always what you think…

#12

I used 2 SD-45’s ( 8 motors and over 30 lbs of traction) for heavy snow with the Aristo plow loaded with a brick for weight.

I sheared off the truck mounting pin due to the power of the 2 engines!!

I now have a solid metal bolt all the way through to the gondola bed to keep this from occuring again.

#13

Daktah John said:

I have always thought that I needed a very powerful and heavy engine and a heavy plow.

What do you think?

What I need is a lot warmer weather, but barring that, a nice comfy chair, woodstove fired up and a youtube video of somebody else out there in the cold wet snow…:wink:

#14

I’m with Ken, on my own chair by the fire…let us know when you are ready to come in out of the cold…!!

#15

John
I lash up 3 engines for the plow train.
Some slip but some work and with all mu together more power = works.
USA’s skates help with ice , along with traction tires and weight in fuel tanks.
My plow has the weight low…Lead screwed to the floor and between the frame rails. “LEAD SLED”
This weight helps with curves… Climate acclimation is a must!
If I have to plow @ another time , I need the Rotary to clear the previous snow drifts .
It’s all about “getting er done”

#16

For me, snow plowing presumes the advantage of battery powered equipment.

For those of us in the “far west” without snow, and with track power, what limitations has anyone experienced with rain/sleet/and some snow on railroad operations. Is there a gigantic electrical ZAP as the water shorts out the track and locos? I have thought of shorting out the project and never run even in the slightest rain storm.

#17

I used to be all track power and was fairly successful at plowing when snow conditions were right. I did like to use a couple of USA Geeps with the skates in place. When the SD45 arrived it became a battery powered affair using a trail car. I never had any issue with track power shorting out due to wet or snow, but I’m sure some of those electrons leaked through wet ballast using up some of the available current.

@Greg - If there was a way around that curving grade it would be gone. I can add horsepower; there are two RS-3’s on the property stored serviceable. That might actually make an interesting push-me/pull-you consist: Rear plow+RS3+Battery/Sound Car+RS3+Front Plow. I need some new 14.8 battery packs to add more load as I only have one 2200Ah that is any good. Think I’ll order some batteries tomorrow while I watch it blizzard outside.

So; from what you guys have said; I can probably get by with less weight if I want to plow with the live steamer; but that snow will have to be just right in order to be successful. Probably best to leave the plowing to the big diesels then bring the steamer out to play in the trenches!

#18

I have not heard the actual weight of the plow, just loaded with crushed stone.

Might be good to state that here.

I did not see anyone recommend less weight on the plow.

Yeah, the live steamer will probably be relegated to ligher duty, and maybe you make different loads for the plow to change weight if necessary.

Regards, Greg

#19

I don’t actually know the weight, but it’s quite heavy. I need to work on the front truck as it gave me some problems the last last times out. I can probably get a weight then.

Dave Russel said he uses half a brick which I know is a lot less and Sean said he just has a low-slung steel bar which I also assume is quite a bit less. But you are right; without actual weight numbers this is all very vague.

#20

Daktah John said: Sean said he just has a low-slung steel bar which I also assume is quite a bit less.

John I use some LEAD which by my reckoning is very heavy, not light. :wink:

My plow has the weight low…Lead screwed to the floor and between the frame rails. “LEAD SLED”