Large Scale Central

Question about twin water towers......

Modeling
#1

Well then, inspired by the challenge, I had some spare time (okay, that’s a damn lie, I haven’t had any “spare” time in 20 years, I started this when I was supposed to be working) so I pulled out the pieces and parts of what is supposed to end up being a twin watering station for locos and gas/oil station for vehicles to be protected under a roof (not built yet).

Here’s what I started with:

And here’s the base of the water tank that will feed the locomotives and the base of the double-tall auxilliary water tank (the main water tank is missing a bunch of parts…I think I must have bought it off ebay for a good price not knowing at the time a lot of the parts were missing):

Here they are together (the storage tank has a nice fresh coat of paint):

My question is this:

How can I plausibly represent the premise that there is a way for water to physically get from the extra storage tank on the left to the active water tank on the right?

A walkway between the two roofs and a pipe going across the walkway? Pretend there are underground pumps? Little guys with buckets climbing up and down the ladders?!?

My second question is a prototype question and probably really stupid, but here goes. These tanks are in a mountain yard. In real life, what was to keep water from freezing, rendering the tank useless, or, worse, the water freezes, expands, and blows the tank apart like a pop can you accidentally left in the freezer?

Thanks.

#2

:wink:

Edit to say I love the Indian Red accent color on the roof of the tower. Perhaps the water didn’t freeze because it was constantly moving?

#3

Answering the wink as best I can, I came up with this idea because I saw double water tanks in an old magazine somewhere, and only one of them had a spout. It captured my imagination because I liked the looks of it.

#4

David Russell said:

:wink:

Edit to say I love the Indian Red accent color on the roof of the tower. Perhaps the water didn’t freeze because it was constantly moving?

Thanks. I don’t know if any railroad would actually do that in real life, but I like it and it’s my yard!

#5

Those are veyr nice looking tanks.
In really cold climates sometimes water tanks would be enclosed in a house. Some of those houses had stoves to keep things warm. perhaps in a large yard they ran steam pipes to the water tank. I think it would take alot of cold to freeze a tank that size but the fittings are a different story.

You could take that grey shed and use that as a tool and pump house in between the 2 tanks.

#6

Todd Haskins said:

You could take that grey shed and use that as a tool and pump house in between the 2 tanks.

Now that’s a cool possibility…quick mock-up below, the “pipes” are dowels painted black.

#7

John

In Canada the CPR used to enclose water tanks in areas prone to freezing. In the lower part of the building there was a large wood stove, and someone on the yard crew would be assigned the task of making sure that the fire never went out. I don’t know for sure how the system worked but enclosed tanks were very common here.

Ron

#8

Naturally, I can’t find the reference now, but I seem to recall reading that in the winter, the water was left to run just slightly through the pipes that led to the spout. This was apparently enough to keep the water from freezing in the pipes and in the tank. The downside was that it built up large ice flows on the sides of the tanks, as the dripping water froze once it hit the ground.

Later,

K

#9

I would make a pump house in between the two to transfer water. If there wasn’t a pump the storage tank would have to be higher than the water tank. I remember reading that storage tanks were used where water supply was slow and also where demand was high.

For freezing, it would have to get very cold to freeze that much moving water. The place where it would freeze would be at the pipes and joints underneath. The wood square box like structure under the tank is actually called a frost box. They were put in place to keep pipes from freezing. I dunno if they were heated or just insulated.

Terry

#10

Yes, the square box was a frost box. Inside the box was the standpipe that was used to pump water into the tower. So having a small building that served as a pump hose would be a plausible solution. Of course I wonder what powered the pump (electric, steam, diesel, imagination). Some frost boxes has a small shed built off to one side, that housed a heater, like a pot bellied stove, to keep the water from freezing.

#11

Thanks for the information and suggestions. I had no idea what that column under the tank was for; I thought it was there for support or something. Since Terry and David point out there’s pipes in there, then it seems natural to use 'em to get water from the storage tank. I still like Todd’s idea of placing the pump in between the two tanks, but I think the one I have now is out of proportion, too big and distracting. I’ll look for something smaller that will serve as a pump house and which will tuck in nicely…I hope I can find something because I don’t want to have to scratchbuild one, never done that. David, the farms along the front range north of of Denver here have pump houses to protect (I presume) their irrigation pumps, and next to each one is a wooden utility pole with an electric line strung down to the pump house; I’ll go with that. Naturally there’s a public service meter on every house, but I’ll skip that!

Since we can’t change titles of discussions, I think I’ll start a fresh build thread when I make more progress on this rather than continue this one.

Thanks again.

#12

Another consideration… You said about the possibility of pumping oil. You are gonna need an engine to pump the oil, you could use the waste heat off that engine to heat the frost box(es).

You would also need a pump to fill the storage tank, assuming the water supply isn’t higher than that tank. That pump could also exhaust its waste heat to the front box.

Finally, this sounds like it is going to be a backwoods engine servicing depot. That being said, consider the need for sand. What often happened in smaller facilities, the (moist) sand was placed in a hopper above a stove. As it heated & dried, the sand would pour out of the hopper into a pile around the stove. From there it would be moved to dry storage until it was loaded into the sandboxes. Sometime it was even just left piled around the stove.

If I was building such a depot, I would consider a small stationary steam engine that drives a main driveshaft. From there, belts would drive:

1)the feedwater pump to the large tank;

2)the transfer pump to the delivery tank;

3)the fuel-oil transfer pump;

all via clutches to allow them to be shut down when/if needed without affecting the other pumps. Finally, the boiler would also have a steam line used to heat the sand for the engines. You could even design up an Archimedes screw powered off the main driveshaft to lift sand up to a sand tower.

The exhaust from the steam engine could be divert-able into the frost box to keep the temp above freezing.

#13

My first reaction is “Whoa there pard’ner.”

J.D., I really like your thinking, and I printed out your ideas and put it away where I can find it, but I gotta tell you, this is only my third build in my modelling life, and the only one I ever finished was the challenge build, so you’re talking about a project that’s way out of my league. I hope some day I get good enough to pull off what you’re suggesting…right now, I’ll be doing well just to get a credible-looking pump house in between those two tanks!

I might make a drawing of your ideas to give me something to shoot for.

#14

John, for a pump house, how bout a piece of 4x4 wood on edge? You could either cut angles into for the roof line or build a roof on top of it. I use them around my layout for out houses and storage sheds.

Terry

#15

Nice idea Terry. I think we have all built little houses at one time or another from a solid block of wood. I have built a tank on stands and used a piece of balluster 1.5"x1.5" for a pump shack or hose closet. It is powered by imagination.
It is very easy John to cut a piece of 4x4 with either a sloped roof or a peaked roof. Then you can use craft/ coffee stirring sticks to create the look of board and batten. Frame a door, don’t foget a doorknob and put on a piece of thin flat wood for a roof or get a roller and put a soda can through it. Glue the heck otu of the wood and paint it and there you go.

Todd

#16

Okay, having learned more than I thought I would ever know about water tanks and pipes pump houses (including how the dang water gets into the water tanks in the first place) and frost boxes and freezing, etc. etc etc., and taking the suggestion to use a simple box to build around, although I used scored heavy cardboard instead of a 4x4 piece of wood, here’s how things have gone, and I really hope I’m not boring anyone to death with all the pictures:

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p2.jpg)

My original idea for the roof was to use the first one I built for my yard office, which I built too small and had to completely re-do to the right size (geez, it’s a miracle I got that build finished in time for the deadline the way I had to do so much twice to get it right), but I decided it didn’t look right, that it was too steep and too big, so I cut my own:

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p3.jpg)

So I replaced it with a better roof prfile and decided against shingles, use corrugated roofing instead:

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p4.jpg)

Then I started laying stick by stick, and this is about the point here where I thought I must be crazy to be doing this like this:

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p5.jpg)

But anyway, after all, here’s the more-or-less finished punp house:

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p7.jpg)

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p8.jpg)

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p9.jpg)

And here’s how it fits in between the two water tanks…

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p10.jpg)

And here’s how it fits into my preliminary placement in the yard:

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p11.jpg)

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p12.jpg)

And let me impose to show one more picture, because this one I’m really proud of…my 13-year-old daughter is laying in all of the preliminary ground cover (mine tailings) and gluing it in place with watered-down white glue, spraying first with water and detergent of course. She’s doing a surprising good job, and once she gets going she seems to enjoy herself. (I give her railroad jobs for her to pay for her half of the monthly charges on that damn I-phone thing I got her for Christmas.)

(http://www.saintfrancisrailroad.com/images/p13.jpg)

#17

That’s a nice looking scene you’ve got going there John. I like the end of track device.

#18

John Passaro said:

and I really hope I’m not boring anyone to death with all the pictures:

Never happen, pictures save us 2 f, h&p typers a lot of time. And explains it a lot easier.

The scene looks real good!

#19

Your pump house looks really good and fits right in with that fine yard tower. I like that the roof on the combine is the same as on the pump house and the red doors. It ties them together.

#20

Cool pump house.

And I agree, the red accents on the tank roof are quite fetching.