So do the math for me- what “scale” trains should run on 45mm track?
John Joseph Sauer said:
So do the math for me- what “scale” trains should run on 45mm track?
You really can’t be that dense …??? Or … wait a minute … ignore my rhetorical question!!
I’m curious about YOUR opinon.
What is your formula for track gauge to scale of the model?
I believe 45mm track gauge works out close to 1/32 scale.
Oh, but wait a minute that’s standard gauge equipment!
What about narrow gauge?
In narrow gauge it orks out close to 1/22.5 , eh?
Things are getting a bit confusing!
Now what about European narrow gauge?
John Joseph Sauer said:Why should I have an opinion? It's a clear cut case of simple math; how various and sundry apply simple math is a complete other matter.
I'm curious about YOUR opinon.
However if various and sundry state that their models are to scale i.e. 1:20.3; 1:22.5; 1:24; 1:29; 1:32 or whatever, I’m quite willing to do a bit of measuring and comparing.
Simple, isn’t it??? 
And once I’m done measuring I can clearly state that dimension “x”, “y” or “z’” is or isn’t according to the stated scale. Again nothing to do with opinion, just the straight numbers. Which always makes me wonder why people get so excited, must be the glasses they’re wearing or the blinders.
John Joseph Sauer said:
In narrow gauge it orks out close to 1/22.5 , eh?Things are getting a bit confusing!
Wahts confusing
Gauge dimension of prototype
__________________________ = scale factor
Gauge dimension of model
i.e. for Swiss Meter gauge
1000mm
_______ = 22.22222 (established scale is 1:22.5
45mm
BTW which of the various European narrow gauges would you like to calculate? Field RR with 500mm track
500
___ = 11.1111
45
Funny Swiss NG running on 800mm?
800
___ = 17.7777
45
Funny Austrian running on 760mm
760
___ = 16.8888
45
As I said it’s straight forward math, nothing to it!
So in other words all manufacturers should manufacture in a myriad of scales?
Doesn’t sound like good business sense.
Wow! Great conversation. I hope this can keep going without turning rude or insulting, as it does so many times.
Very interesting that the width is interjected, but somewhat ignored.
Not that I know what John is asking, but I’m interpreting that he is asking what is the ideal scale that looks the best on 45 mm track. Probably, some extra large scale industrial tram railway with the track being between 18 inches and 2 foot apart, maybe. Of course, the big question that I’ll bring to the table is the compromise of the common rail size (LGB and Aristo) being 332 and then you’ve got to include the distance between the ties and then the size of the ties.
John, it is all a compromise. You’ve got to pick for yourself and decide what looks good to your eyes. Somewhere in trying to find what works, you will have to make some compromises. You’ll have to decide what you are willing to say is “good enough” to achieve what you want to achieve.
A couple of people have said it, but the best answer is that these are toys that we admire and play with. If you want it to look perfect, run perfect, and survive perfect, in an assorted set of environmental and role playing modes you are probably going to have to allow a couple of compromises somewhere.
Asking questions may prevent you from making some mistakes or it may just confuse you more. That is both a good idea and I’m sorry that is such a good idea because it may prevent you from diving in to the hobby. Which overall is great fun and full of great people that have a common interest, if you don’t dwell in to it to deep.
Ric,
I’m more than willing to compromise. What I was trying to point out was that you cannot possibly maintain a "standard scale " when dealing with so many different “gauges”.
John Joseph Sauer said:
Ric,What I was trying to point out was that you cannot possibly maintain a "standard scale " when dealing with so many different “gauges”.
Well, actually you probably can, if you build everything yourself or carry a scale and research and measure everything before you make any purchase.
Very few of us have been able to do that and the manufacturers certainly don’t try to stick to a true scale. Once again the word compromise comes in to the picture. 
John Joseph Sauer said:Why should they produce a myriad scales? All they need do is pick a prototype decide what scale it works out to on 45mm track and be done.
So in other words all manufacturers should manufacture in a myriad of scales? Doesn't sound like good business sense.
Of course if you want to be all things to all people then you produce a myriad scales - EPL Patentwerk comes immediately to mind - with only the few exceptions being true to scale and the rest being “My, do they look good! Look at the WOW factor! Must be right off the Richter scale!”.
You want toys? Keep on buying LGB and don’t worry about scale. just as long as “My, do they look good! Look at the WOW factor! Must be right off the Richter scale!”
It just depends on what gauge train you are trying to make your toys match. I’ve lately taken a shining to 2’ gauge…so…that leaves me modeling that in 7/8ths…which is also known as 1:13.7. And don’t get anal about width of cars or anything else because in that gauge they can be darn near anything. Most cars and locomotives vary in width from 5’ to 8’ and length from about 6’ to 30’.
Any ways, while HJ gets out his calculator and slide rule…I’m gonna go play with my toy trains…
Well I guess in Utopia a manufacturer could make enough money producing niche products to survive, but here in the real world …
Ric Golding said:John Joseph Sauer said:
Ric,What I was trying to point out was that you cannot possibly maintain a "standard scale " when dealing with so many different “gauges”.
Well, actually you probably can, if you build everything yourself or carry a scale and research and measure everything before you make any purchase.Very few of us have been able to do that and the manufacturers certainly don’t try to stick to a true scale. Once again the word compromise comes in to the picture.
Ric,
There will always be compromises, it just depends where they have to be made. If a piece of rolling stock turns out to be a caricature of the prototype, well the mfg can keep it as far as I’m concerned unless that caricature is good kitbashing material, in which case I will buy it, too.
BTW between the Internet, the mags and other sources there seems to be hardly any reason why anyone should end up with a caricature if one doesn’t want one. Admittedly it will take a bit of research, which, heaven forbid, may lead a few LSers to discover a few more things about the prototype.
And if you’re willing to chop and mangle “stuff” that is supposed to be to scale, chances are good you end up with something that is “mighty close to prototype” - not to be confused with “As close to 1:29 as I can get it!”. A good start is: the same scale in all three dimensions.
Reminds me … I better get back to translating the GBp, a few NA items in issue 6/2007.
Okay, you two need to take it outside!
-Brian
Warren Mumpower said:
It just depends on what gauge train you are trying to make your toys match. I've lately taken a shining to 2' gauge...so...that leaves me modeling that in 7/8ths...which is also known as 1:13.7. And don't get anal about width of cars or anything else because in that gauge they can be darn near anything. Most cars and locomotives vary in width from 5' to 8' and length from about 6' to 30'.Any ways, while HJ gets out his calculator and slide rule…I’m gonna go play with my toy trains…
TOY TRAINS… blasphemy!!!
please refer to them as Scale models or Railway Miniatures!
It’s almost as bad as calling an “Action Figure” a doll!!!
John Joseph Sauer said:You may want to talk to Stefan Kiss, the people at BEMO or for that matter any of the many mfgs who seem to have no problem to produce to scale. And in great quantities! Many of them produce NA proto, but not necessarily in LS. After all in LS the WOW factor carries more weight than anything else!
Well I guess in Utopia a manufacturer could make enough money producing niche products to survive, but here in the real world ......