Large Scale Central

Putting the SHORT in Short Line

Track and Trestles
#1

As more parts of the Slate Creek fall into place I’m discovering just exactly how small a railroad it really is… even though it takes up the whole basement! The most recent dilemma involves trackage at “Midway” … the working title for the town between the crusher plant and the mine. Plans called for a run-around track with a house track at this station. Here’s what it looks like NOW:

The passing track was supposed to run from one curve to the other (in the photo, there’s a pile of AristoCraft curves used for curve approximation at the near end, and some more stacked track past the power tools that is very near the other end of where the siding will end) … along the long straight side of the benchwork. You can see from the benchwork underneath, that this makes for a switchpoint to switchpoint distance of 16 feet or so. Sixteen feet isn’t bad as a siding … that’s eight forty foot cars… and 10 30 foot cars … The devil is in the details, though. Laying out the switches, between the actual length of a #6 switch, (about 2 feet) which takes away four feet … and the length of reverse curve needed to accomplish the parallel track … the useable siding in the middle is about eight feet long! Well… that’s better than nothing. It does leave room for a three car passenger train, and maybe a five or six car freight, depending on cars … Of course the house track’s going to be pretty short too … Anyhow … since we’re not spiked in place yet, I figured I’d air this here … anyone have a better track plan, or ideas on how to make it work well? I’ve never seen such a short run-around except maybe Pardee Point, or the passing siding at the Trolley museum I used to work with … but I suppose it’s possible. Someday I’m gonna figure out how to do this all outside, and “connect” to the Port Orford Coast … woww… would love to have that much space on the benchwork, and those kinds of features! For now, I need to do the best with the space I have.

#2

Matt,

This is a problem we all have had especially indoors no matter what the scale. For that matter even outdoors!

Try adjusting your thinking a bit. Is there any way to combine one aspect of the RR with more than one industrial feature? Is the track in question the only runaround track you’ll have or is there to be one serving another location? If so is there some way to allow one runaround track to serve more than one location? A terminal off of one end of a long runaround track and an industrial location off the other end for example. When switching the mine or maybe the crusher the siding becomes part of that location. After a run around the mainline the train arrives at the same siding which this time is technically “Midway” on its other end.

I don’t know if the specific suggestion is even possible but I think you can see the principle. Two runarounds combined into one large one serving two different locations in order to save space.

I once had a small HO railroad in a spare bedroom and used this principle to have one turntable and engine house serve two terminals at opposite ends schematically of the RR. The two terminals were brought to opposite sides of a common aisle and the engine service was off of the apex where the aisle ended and benchwork went perpendicular to it along the end wall. A lead was installed to the turntable from two sides, one for each terminal.

Another trick is to have one building represent two different locations by having tracks running by on both sides and detailing the building differently on each side. Maybe one side as a mine tipple and the other as a crusher for example.

Try to separate the over all scenic look from your operating schematic wherever possible.

Just some suggestions for you to ponder. It’s something that ultimately you’ll have to figure out for yourself. Good luck and if you find enough room maybe you can even fit in an interchange track with the POC then you’ll be a real transcontinental 'cause we ain’t going anyplace! hehe!

#3

Well, given that we’re supposed to be on an island, perhaps a car float… but then that bridge might just get you out there!

The idea (so far) with the Slate Creek is that the line starts at a pier, passes through the yard (where the enginehouse will be, as well as a station, service facilities, and two storage tracks (one of which could be a team track…) and then through a “compressed” climb out to the mainline junction … the track to the right goes on to the “loop” section, currently the main line, and the left track goes 6-7 feet to a stub end, which if we ever move the washer and dryer upstairs (muahahaa… wouldn’t that be convenient, honey?) will have some more space in that direction, and the potential window exit to the great outdoors … where possibly a POCish causeway and bridge will convey to some kind of outdoor paradise … but not anytime soon.

Around the first curve from the junction is the area that has the crush plant and the powerhouse… coal and ore in, concentrates in sacks out. No passing track, sidings with trailing point exit switch to the main.

Next is a tunnel, and running area, with a bridge, the token appearance of the body of water from which the railroad gets its name… and then another long curve at the end of which is the first switch for the Midway passing track (and house track too from this direction.) Passing through the station, and past the trailing passing track switch, you go around a curve, over a grade crossing, and up the climb to the “High Bridge” before the last curve that takes you to the facing point switch into the mine loading area. The main continues to the beginning of the curve that in a “space compressed” fashion ends up back at the junction … this curve will have an avalanche or similar obstacle to make the line point to point for most operations, though, it’s designed as a railroad that was eventually built in a loop around the mountain that makes up most of the island so both linear and loop operations schemes are possible. The idea is on the point to point plan, that trains will pick up at the mine, drag to Midway, run around, shove to the crush plant, drag empties back to Midway, run around, and shove upgrade to the mine. Outbound concentrates will either be set out for pickup by engines coming from the pier, or trains may have to go to Midway, run around, and shove back.

Looping operations will ultimately include “system controlled” passenger trains that run the loop on a schedule, while various freight operations work around them.

All seems to be pretty well organized, except that you can’t walk from the pier to the crush plant with your train … that’s the one part where you either have to go under (a pain!) or around (long walk) which may necessitate a “stop for orders” at the junction.

It all sounds so great … except it’s such a short run! At least weather won’t be a concern.

Matthew (OV)

#4
Matthew (OV) said:
[i][/i] Laying out the switches, between the actual length of a #6 switch, (about 2 feet) which takes away four feet .... and the length of reverse curve needed to accomplish the parallel track ..... [i][/i]
I faced the same problem when I re-aligned all of my indoor track. I love the #6 switches and had planned to use them, but they are just too dang long for indoors. There was no way I could get 2 #6's in the main before the loop. I ended up using the Aristo Wide. It is significantly sharper than the #6, but fits in a lot less space, including the curve back to parallel. Most stuff will go through a 'wide' switch, but you might need to tweak the frog ramps, points and guard rails some.

Stay with the #6 if you can work out the operational issues. If you must have a longer siding for the operation to work then consider relaxing your minimum radius a bit and try the 'Wide".

Best of luck.

Jon

#5

My thought would be to use a custom curved turnout coming into the siding, so you can give yourself a little extra running room. Old Pullman makes curved turnouts in code 250, but they may do one in 332 if you ask. Parker Co. does 332 switches, but doesn’t list anything curved. Again, a phone call may provide the necessary answer. I keep thinking they did a custom curved turnout for a friend of mine, but I’m not sure. They’re not difficult to build, so if you wanted to cannibalize one of the Aristo switches for the points, that’s an option, too.

Beyond that, I’d have to see a track diagram to contemplate alternatives. The 5’ radius switches aren’t a bad idea, either. They do take up a lot less space.

Later,

K

#6

I’m using Llagas track, code 250 NS rail … I had thought of using a curved turnout in the curve at one end or the other to make the siding a bit longer, or possibly using #4 instead of #6 to shorten it up a bit…

I’ll mull this over a bit, and post what happens here …

Matt

#7

You said - “that’s the one part where you either have to go under (a pain!) or around (long walk) which may necessitate a “stop for orders” at the junction.”

I think the “stop for orders” is the perfect solution. Real world trains sit a lot more than the models do. Do you “make air” before you move? Take time to connect all the air lines? Depending on era, call in your flagmen? Creep through the frogs, checking for derailments? All these things add to the event. There is a sign in a marina in Kentucky, it says “Slow down, you’re here now”. Well, if we have achieved our modeling replication have we succeeded at getting there? Enjoy, what you have created or are creating.

#8

It’s all very interesting.

I do intend to develop a “Book of Rules” based on the operating rules I was familiar with on the VRR, and other places, with modifications for the “model” end of things. (Add “Without the permission of the Superintendent” to the end of Rule G, and “to the extent that it causes annoyance” to the end of Rule 17, for example!)

I don’t know that I’d want to wait the length of time it’d take to pump up a 10 car train, set, wait, walk, release, walk, every time… but stopping before coupling to passenger or occupied equipment, stopping to protect crossings when shoving, backing, or when grade crossing protection isn’t working the usual way … speed restrictions, and so forth all add to making the train behave realistically.

I am working on some air brake sound gadgetry for my passenger cars … making air tests possible, at the very least.

I think adding things like taking on water/coal waiting for orders (at least long enough to walk around) and dealing with signal circuits, passing trains at station platforms where passengers may be a concern, and the need for “saw by” manoeuvres, etc. will add to the challenge of switching, keeping a schedule, and operating, especially since I won’t have enough layout to make for HUGE operating sessions … this will be two or three at a time, max. But it’s a start!

#9
Matthew (OV) said:
I'm using Llagas track, code 250 NS rail .... I had thought of using a curved turnout in the curve at one end or the other to make the siding a bit longer, or possibly using #4 instead of #6 to shorten it up a bit....

I’ll mull this over a bit, and post what happens here …

Matt


Years ago on my first outdoor layout I had a section of curve running past the garage window. I think I tried every combination of pre made turnout that was then on the market to fit it into that section so I could run a track into the garage to a storage area. I finally had to build my own curved turnout to get it to fit the area. I fashioned a frog out of plastic and epoxy and using a couple of curved sections of trackand made my own curved turnout. Worked very well the whole time it was in place. I had to used an electric grinder to fashion the point rails as the brass rail was some kind of alloy and tough as he**! Thought I might have a picture of it stored someplace but I guess not…:wink: