Large Scale Central

Push Button Start for Children's Hospital

Electronics
#1

A Question for all you Double and Triple E’s, plus anyone else that can help.

The Gateway Garden Railroad Club of the greater St. Louis area helps maintain the display layout at the St. Louis Children’s Hospital. We are having a problem with the trains running to long, unattended, and just left to self destruct. This is a high visibility layout for the kids at Children’s and normally runs from 6 am to 9 pm, 365 days a year. Two tracks on large ceiling loops and a siding on each track to allow a second train to be put out on the main and give the first train a rest.

Power is provided by MRC power packs controlled by AC Train Engineers all hidden away in the ceiling and remotely controlled by transmitters to turn on and off, plus switch tracks and trains. Two identical systems with separate power supplies. These take a twelve foot ladder and limited access through a ceiling hatch to get to them.

What we would like to do is put together a system that works with a soft start and stop and is controlled by someone pushing a single button on the wall accessable to the public. It could be a separate button for each track or a single button for both tracks. We are open for ideas.

Thoughts have been toward the type of system that controls point to point reverseable running with soft start and stop at each end. Maybe this could be adapted for continuous circle running, using the soft start and stop out of the systems, but we haven’t established a supplier or designer and I thought I would present this idea to the brain trust of this site for ideas.

ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED. This is for a good cause and a smile on one of those little hurting faces will melt even the coldest heart.

Thank you in advance for any thoughts put toward this.

#2

the easiest way might be, to use track-contacts.
making a “dead” piece of track on each siding.
let us say, the train, that reaches the right siding sets the turnout and the DC current to the left siding. so the train from the left siding can start its turn.
when it reaches again the left siding, it switches the turnout to the right side and the DC too. - BUT in series with this relais (or whatever you use, is a pushbutton.

that would let each of the two trains run one full lap for every time, the button is pushed.

for changing the current from side to side and switching the turnouts you could use reeds, or better short pieces of the track as contacts. (i think, Toddalin described that idea)

#3

Tony,Jon,Greg all come to mind plus a few that I’m surly missing…is there anything Aristo makes that could help you ? If so e-mail me.

#4

I know that at Niagara Hobby in Buffalo NY they rigged the display layout with a huge Lionel button to turn on the power strip that has all the transformers on it. Includign teh water feature once upon a time. It was also routed thru a simple electronic timer too so the trins only ran for about 5 minutes each time teh button was pressed. It also did NOT reset the timer if the button was pressed multiple times. I have no idea how they rigged it BUT I do know that it was not a soft start or stop at all.

Chas

#5

“BUT I do know that it was not a soft start or stop at all.”

That seems to be one of the most important parts of this desire. To save the gears.

#6
Ric Golding said:
A Question for all you Double and Triple E's, plus anyone else that can help.

The Gateway Garden Railroad Club of the greater St. Louis area helps maintain the display layout at the St. Louis Children’s Hospital. We are having a problem with the trains running to long, unattended, and just left to self destruct. This is a high visibility layout for the kids at Children’s and normally runs from 6 am to 9 pm, 365 days a year. Two tracks on large ceiling loops and a siding on each track to allow a second train to be put out on the main and give the first train a rest.

Power is provided by MRC power packs controlled by AC Train Engineers all hidden away in the ceiling and remotely controlled by transmitters to turn on and off, plus switch tracks and trains. Two identical systems with separate power supplies. These take a twelve foot ladder and limited access through a ceiling hatch to get to them.

What we would like to do is put together a system that works with a soft start and stop and is controlled by someone pushing a single button on the wall accessable to the public. It could be a separate button for each track or a single button for both tracks. We are open for ideas.

Thoughts have been toward the type of system that controls point to point reverseable running with soft start and stop at each end. Maybe this could be adapted for continuous circle running, using the soft start and stop out of the systems, but we haven’t established a supplier or designer and I thought I would present this idea to the brain trust of this site for ideas.

ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED. This is for a good cause and a smile on one of those little hurting faces will melt even the coldest heart.

Thank you in advance for any thoughts put toward this.


Ric,
Look at one of our site sponsors, they may have what your looking for. http://www.rr-concepts.com/

Nick

#7

Nick,

Thank you, an inquiry was sent.

#8

It would be easier to use simple timers on loops, then you could start and stop at any random time.

Adding the slow start and stop is actually relatively easy, a capacitor and resistor would do it.

But interrupting the operation on a point to point might be tougher, the electronics made for this might not like being turned on and off at odd intervals.

I’d shoot for loops, and electrical simplicity, that will make maintenance easier and less frequent.

Regards, Greg

#9

Greg, you said-

“It would be easier to use simple timers on loops, then you could start and stop at any random time.”

Nobody disagrees, but the soft start and stop is the problem. Along with the fact that the controls are through an access hole in a twelve foot ceiling and everything is controlled by Aristo TE’s. Our club did not design this system.
There is a great deal of corporate bureacracy to go through to make changes. Hospitals are just like governments, even when they do things that are stupid, they still think they are the smartest people in the room.

“Adding the slow start and stop is actually relatively easy, a capacitor and resistor would do it.”
Maybe, but we don’t have the expertise to do it. That’s why I asked for help.

“But interrupting the operation on a point to point might be tougher, the electronics made for this might not like being turned on and off at odd intervals.”
This was just an example of an idea. We are dealing with Aristo TE controlled loops and wanting to improve it, but still have the ability of TE or something like it control, because of tranformer locations.

“I’d shoot for loops, and electrical simplicity, that will make maintenance easier and less frequent.”
As stated already loops, been there for 10 years.

#10

The start and stop would be as simple as putting a resistor in series with a BIG electrolytic capacitor, and putting across the output of the power supply (you need to respect the polarity of the capacitor)…

Try a 5 ohm resistor (5 watts or more) and a diode in parallel and hook in series wht a couple hundred thousand mfd 35v (or higher) capacitor. If you must reverse the power to the track, put this before the reversing switch.

When power is applied, the capacitor will suck the voltage up because it is charging. when you cut the power, the capacitor will power the loco for a short while (limited by the resistor)…

You might have to play with the resistor and capacitor values, since they depend on the load and voltage.

If you can give me an idea of the voltage and current used I might be able to help more.

Do the TE’s have a linear switch? If so, please measure voltage that way.

Regards, Greg

#11

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Bomba_atomowa.gif)

#12
Greg Elmassian said:
The start and stop would be as simple as putting a resistor in series with a BIG electrolytic capacitor, and putting across the output of the power supply (you need to respect the polarity of the capacitor)...

Try a 5 ohm resistor (5 watts or more) and a diode in parallel and hook in series wht a couple hundred thousand mfd 35v (or higher) capacitor. If you must reverse the power to the track, put this before the reversing switch.

When power is applied, the capacitor will suck the voltage up because it is charging. when you cut the power, the capacitor will power the loco for a short while (limited by the resistor)…

You might have to play with the resistor and capacitor values, since they depend on the load and voltage.

If you can give me an idea of the voltage and current used I might be able to help more.

Do the TE’s have a linear switch? If so, please measure voltage that way.

Regards, Greg


Greg,

Thank you for the offer. All this has to go through many, many channels before anything other than talk is considered. I’m just the guy that posted the question trying to get ideas.