Large Scale Central

Purdue researcher: Ethanol has peaked

First there was peak oil, now we bring you peak ethanol.
Next we bring you peak wind?

http://www.jconline.com/article/20110110/NEWS/101100324/Purdue-researcher-Ethanol-has-peaked

"Eric Weddle jconline.com" said:
[b]Purdue researcher: Ethanol has peaked[/b]

Has the use of ethanol in the U.S. reached its saturation point?

Yes, or says the conclusion of a Purdue University agricultural economics professor who has studied federal data about how ethanol is consumed and about the growth potential in the industry to meet an upcoming federal mandate for renewable fuel use.

Wally Tyner says developing next-generation biofuels, such as ones produced from algae or another biomass, is the only way to reach the mandate due to a lack of infrastructure in the U.S. for ethanol.

“You can produce bio-gasoline or green diesel as cellulosic fuels. You don’t have to produce ethanol,” Tyner said of fuels that still are in the development stage. “It goes right into the pipeline and can go right into the system and blend with the gasoline.”

But the owners of an ethanol plant in Linden, several miles south of Lafayette, say despite restrictions, increasing production of the mostly corn-based fuel is possible.

“Demand for regionally, refinery-made gasoline has peaked,” said Bill Day, spokesman for Valero Energy Corp. “Any increased demand for motor oil will be made with ethanol.”

Valero is the largest independent U.S. refiner. A year ago the San Antonio-based energy corporation purchased the Linden ethanol plant from VeraSun Energy Corp. The plant restarted production in September.

Tyner is not so sure VeraSun’s view is on the mark. At issue is meeting the federal renewable fuel standard. Tyner’s findings, co-authored with other researchers, were published in the December issue of the American Journal of Agricultural Economics.

The regulation requires an increase of renewable fuel production to 36 billion gallons per year by 2022. Up to this point, Tyner said, all the commercial gasoline-type biofuels are ethanol. Two different blends of ethanol are available in the U.S. – E10 and E85, meaning 10 percent ethanol and 85 percent ethanol, respectively.

According to Tyner, about 13 billion gallons of renewable fuel were required for 2010 and that the same amount he predicts the U.S. can handle through consumption and infrastructure.

Has the use of ethanol in the U.S. reached its saturation point?

Yes, or says the conclusion of a Purdue University agricultural economics professor who has studied federal data about how ethanol is consumed and about the growth potential in the industry to meet an upcoming federal mandate for renewable fuel use.

Wally Tyner says developing next-generation biofuels, such as ones produced from algae or another biomass, is the only way to reach the mandate due to a lack of infrastructure in the U.S. for ethanol.

“You can produce bio-gasoline or green diesel as cellulosic fuels. You don’t have to produce ethanol,” Tyner said of fuels that still are in the development stage. “It goes right into the pipeline and can go right into the system and blend with the gasoline.”

But the owners of an ethanol plant in Linden, several miles south of Lafayette, say despite restrictions, increasing production of the mostly corn-based fuel is possible.

“Demand for regionally, refinery-made gasoline has peaked,” said Bill Day, spokesman for Valero Energy Corp. “Any increased demand for motor oil will be made with ethanol.”

Valero is the largest independent U.S. refiner. A year ago the San Antonio-based energy corporation purchased the Linden ethanol plant from VeraSun Energy Corp. The plant restarted production in September.

Tyner is not so sure VeraSun’s view is on the mark. At issue is meeting the federal renewable fuel standard. Tyner’s findings, co-authored with other researchers, were published in the December issue of the American Journal of Agricultural Economics.

The regulation requires an increase of renewable fuel production to 36 billion gallons per year by 2022. Up to this point, Tyner said, all the commercial gasoline-type biofuels are ethanol. Two different blends of ethanol are available in the U.S. – E10 and E85, meaning 10 percent ethanol and 85 percent ethanol, respectively.

According to Tyner, about 13 billion gallons of renewable fuel were required for 2010 and that the same amount he predicts the U.S. can handle through consumption and infrastructure.
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Basically, he said, ethanol can’t make up the difference.

Tyner points out numerous reasons why ethanol is limited, such as it is required to be transported by rail or in tankers, unlike gasoline which has a distribution network through pipelines.

Tyner said the most striking reason is that there are about 2,000 fuel pumps out of 160,000 in the U.S. devoted to E85 – and it took 20 years to install them. In addition, Tyner said, E85 gets lower mileage than gasoline.

If gas was $3 per gallon at the pump, E85 would have to be $2.34 per gallon to break even on mileage, he said.

To increase E85 use, Valero is adding more fuel pumps for drivers.

“Valero owns about 1,000 retail sites in the U.S.,” Day said of fuel stations, mostly in the Southwest. “We are adding E85 pumps to service the demand for the flex-fuel issues.”

While that’s a small increase at first, Day said it will lead to more cars being able to fuel up with ethanol blends, thus increasing demand.

Day said Valero is confident ethanol use will increase, which is why it has purchased 10 plants, which can produce 1.2 billion gallons per year.

In Linden, the plant employs 65 people and operates 24 hours a day and has the capacity to produce 110 million gallons per year.

Day agreed with Tyner’s call for creating cellulosic fuels. Valero, he said, is putting money into that technology too.

“We have a lot of interest in that emerging technology, but the problem is they are emerging, not ready for now,” he said.
Following the discussion

One company that is following the ethanol discussion is Swift Enterprises, a renewable energy company at the Purdue Research Park in West Lafayette. In recent years the company has focused on developing a high-octane general aviation fuel that is biorenewable and nearing approval for the market.

Philip J. Catania, an aerospace engineer with the company, said Swift agrees the U.S. has reached, and possibly surpassed, the consumption threshold for ethanol, especially as the government has recently approved a gasoline blend with 15 percent ethanol.

“If you look in the owner’s manual for any vehicle out on the road these days, they state that ethanol over 10 percent in auto gas will void your warranty,” he said. “When we called one of the major U.S. auto manufacturers, we could not get anyone to give us an answer as to whether or not this would in fact void the warranty. Kind of troubling.”

Tyner and Day agree that the 15 percent blend is not the way to increase ethanol use, because it could only be used in cars made in 2007 or after.

Valero and other fuel station chains, including Marathon Oil Corp., said they will not sell E15.

For now, Swift is focusing on its aviation fuel and not something for the local pump.

“This is something we have started exploring, along with other fuels,” Catania said. “However, they are a very low priority, and as such will probably stay on the back burner until our aviation gasoline has hit the market.”

Yep.
Of course the automakers had no way of knowing the government was pushing for more ethanol in fuel, I mean you know how the government keeps all that stuff so secret.

"Philip J. Catania" said:
"If you look in the owner's manual for any vehicle out on the road these days, they state that ethanol over 10 percent in auto gas will void your warranty," he said. "When we called one of the major U.S. auto manufacturers, we could not get anyone to give us an answer as to whether or not this would in fact void the warranty. Kind of troubling."

Didn’t you read? Algore admitted last year that he was in the pocket of the corn lobby when he started pushing Ethanol… actually he called it an ‘error’…

It ain’t even “green”. It takes a lot more energy to produce than you get out of it. The only real ‘winner’ is ADM, CPC, Conagra, big factory farms, etc.

Mik said:
Didn't you read? Algore admitted last year that he was in the pocket of the corn lobby when he started pushing Ethanol
"An inconvenient truth"??, to use a phrase.
Forrest Scott Wood said:
Mik said:
Didn't you read? Algore admitted last year that he was in the pocket of the corn lobby when he started pushing Ethanol
"An inconvenient truth"??, to use a phrase.
Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Mr. Wood, how dare you point out the obvious? :lol: :stuck_out_tongue:

Really, Sir, at long last, have you no shame? :stuck_out_tongue: :lol: :slight_smile:

Steve Featherkile said:
Mr. Wood, how dare you point out the obvious?
Uhh, maybe I'm genetically defective somehow? ;)

Last year I read a book titled “Alcohol is a Gas”. Very interesting reading. The author points out that blending alcohol with gasoline is a waste of time and not cost effective. He states the only way to make alcohol useable as a gas substitue to run cars is by using 100% alcohol as the fuel. In fact this is how many of the high performance race cars and dragsters are fuled today. It only takes a few minor changes to a gasoline engine to make it run on 100% alcohol. Brazil has been running all their own countries cars on 100% alcohol made from sugarcane and exporting all their oil to foreign countries for them to use as fuel. According to the book the mash left over after extracting alcohol from corn can be used as cattle feed so you get duel use of the corn. He states that this alcohol depleted corn mash left over is actually better feed stock than raw corn for cattle as they can digest it easier. He says that corn feed beef is a joke as cattle stomachs are made to digest grass and not grain.

The book goes on to list a lot of plants that can be used as alcohol feed stock. One of the best in catails. You know thosse tall plants with the brown cigar shaped tops that grow in every pond and roadside gulley in the country. He says that catails grow to hugh sizes and in great numbers on the nutrient waste water stream from sewage treatement plants. He figures you could grow enough catails on the waiste stream from a large cities sewage treamant facilities to provide alcohol to power all that cities cars.

I wonder if anyone encept this guy has investigated his ideas. Maybe Al Gore is right but he just doesn’t know it yet.

Big John

sorry, but it seems, that you got some incorrect information there.
as far, as i know, the brasilians do not use corn for alcohol production. only sugar cane.
and the cattle feeding part - if sugar cane is broken up (shreddered) or pressed previously, its energy balance for cows is evening out. the animals need just as much energy to chew and digest it, as they gain.
if the canes are not broken or cut, the animals even need more enrgy to eat it, than it produces.
i myself had to feed sugar cane from another part of the country to my cattle during several droughts.
it helps mostly in keeping the suffering animals occupied and content.
best way, to use the pressed rests of sugar cane is to use it as fuel when heating the melasse for sugar.

John Spehar said:
Last year I read a book titled "Alcohol is a Gas".
Have heard that fellow interviewed, maybe several times, on Coast to Coast AM.

I don’t have enough first-hand knowledge and/or experience to say he’s right or wrong about plant sources.

What I do know is alcohol is used as a fuel in motors.

Thing about cattle and digesting corn makes sense: corn can sometimes be hard for even us humans to digest - humans like me, for example.

Korm Kormsen said:
as far, as i know, the brasilians do not use corn for alcohol production. only sugar cane.
Hmm . . . what might Google find about that?

Ahh, how about this http://www.brasil.gov.br/sobre/economy/energy-matrix/ethanol/br_model1?set_language=en

"www.brasil.gov.br" said:
Energy Matrix

Relacionados

* Biofuel
* Ethanol
* Natural Gas
* Oil
* Subsalt

Ethanol

  • Portal Brasil

Brazil is today the world’s largest exporter of ethanol, with 430 plants concentrated mainly in the Center-South of Brazil. About 60% of production comes from Sao Paulo state and 10% from the Northeast of the country. In recent years Brazil has seen a growing number of plants, following investment by major oil companies in biofuel production.
Petrobras etanol

* Brazil is the world's largest producer of sugarcane-based ethanol
* Enlarge Enlarge

Brazil produces capital goods for the sugar and ethanol agribusiness that has allowed the expansion and enhancement of ethanol production. Besides serving the domestic market, investment has begun in exporting machinery for the sugar and ethanol industry in other countries.

Researchers are working on advances in the production of sugarcane=based fuel ethanol, while offering their expertise to other nations in tropical regions. This encourages the production and export of ethanol, expanding and diversifying the supply on the global market.

The demand for fuel ethanol has risen by a significant 7.2% on 2008. The volume of ethanol sold in Brazil has surpassed 22.8 billion liters.

Export market

Brazilian ethanol is now exported to the USA, Japan, Jamaica, Nigeria, South Korea, Sweden, the Netherlands, Costa Rica, El Salvador and Mexico, as well as to the European Union. Brazilian companies also export hydrous ethanol to Central America and the Caribbean. In 2009, Brazil exported about 777 million liters to these countries.

Declining rates of Brazilian production and export volumes of ethanol, however, have caught the attention of industry experts. In 2009, Brazil produced 26.1 billion liters of ethanol, 3.9% less than in 2008, when it produced 27.1 billion liters. From January to August 2010 Brazil exported 1.14 billion liters of ethanol (worth US$ 607 million), 50% down on the same period in 2009. In 2009, 3.3 billion liters of alcohol were sold, 36% down on 2008. Export revenue from ethanol in 2009 was US$ 1.3 billion (down by 44% on 2008).

Brazil is currently investing to increase its installed production capacity for sugarcane-based ethanol. Investment in the biofuel industry by 2012 has been estimated at US$ 33 billion (US$ 23 billion in industry and US$ 10 billion in agriculture). There are currently 437 production units, 168 producing ethanol, 16 producing sugar, and 253 producing both sugar and ethanol.

Source:

Petrobras