Large Scale Central

PRR K4

Electronics Live Steam
#1

Well, I finally bit the bullet and bought the darn thing. GRS UK have been advertising it for the past few months, and my uncle passed and left me a small number of GBP. As he was the one who helped my parents get me trains when I was 5 yrs old, it seems like a fitting use for his legacy!

The specs say that #3750 would be supplied in dark (“Brunswick”?) green. This one is clearly black.

https://www.americanmainline.com/modelc/G701-01-C.htm#page=page-1

Anyone shed any light on the color? Or the original retail price? It has an axle pump, which I think was an “option” for extra $$.

It’s a pre-war version, with the slatted pilot, so I am going to have to research what color and stripes the coaches should have. And whether to get some old Aristos or the new USAT Heavyweights. Questions, always questions. . .

#2

Pete, you have to remember that to make “Brunswick Green” they mixed one gallon of green to one million gallons of black paint.

#3

Lou Luczu said:

Pete, you have to remember that to make “Brunswick Green” they mixed one gallon of green to one million gallons of black paint.

Well, yes, but the Accucraft version is “dark” green and looks like this: (which is also #3750 !!)

#4

I wonder if it is actually #3760 ? (I blew up the pic of the green one and it has the same writing style.)

#5

The term “Brunswick Green” may well have sprung from Brunswick, New Jersey, the site of the Du Pont paint plant.

http://sbiii.com/prr2.html#colors

#6

Hmmm. . . I think I bought a model of #3760. The PRR 5 seems to have a clear square top:

And the 6 doesn’t:

I still haven’t found a photo with the “6” looking like stenciled open number.

#7

Lou Luczu said:

Pete, you have to remember that to make “Brunswick Green” they mixed one gallon of green to one million gallons of black paint.

Exactly however in the proper light it will show green …love the turn of the century eye trickery !

#8

I am working on a painted sign order at work. Customer spec was Benjamin Moore Dark Forrest Green. I had the paint mixed up and created a color sample for the vinyl shop to find a close match. If you don’t hold it next to something black to compare it to, you would swear it is black. But as Roo says, in the right light it is a green.

@Pete - Seems that PRR may have had some variation in the number plate fonts. I have a large photo of 6755’s smoke box hanging above my desk taken at the PA RR Museum. The font on 6755’s brass plate is a bit different from the photos you posted. The 5, however, definitely has a square top left corner and a flat top.

#9

From Wikipedia: ‘The color used by the Pennsylvania Railroad for locomotives was often called Brunswick green, but officially was termed dark green locomotive enamel (DGLE). This was a shade of green so dark as to be almost black, but which turned greener with age and weathering as the copper compounds further oxidized.’

Since the paint oxidized lighter, the color may depend on the age of the locomotive, thus different greens can be correct.

Have fun with your trains…

PS:

Why this color?

They could mix it by full buckets, thus color match was achieved system wide, where having to make measurements could lead to discrepancies. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#10

Pete,

Regarding the numeral, since there are no stencil styled 0s, I’d stick with a 5.

The sand casting tray was bumped and the top of the number fell in, a finger ‘fixed’ that one at the end of the day…

It does stay within the outline of the other numbers…

Sand and oil.

‘I’ve got a hot date, the bell is about to ring and … There! Good enough. As long as Pete doesn’t see it, I’ll get to go dancing!’

#11

The present number board was added in 2008 when it went through a cosmetic restoration … Prior to that she stood in for another loco as a display.

From Wikipedia;

" The Pennsylvania decided to scrap 1737 and use 3750 as a stand-in; 3750 received the original number plates and tender from 1737."

No word on where the originals went.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Railroad_3750

#12

Not to add confusion to the discussion I believe one factor in PRRs paint color has been overlooked. As will be noted from the attached, paint was mixed on site from bulk quantities of pigment powders, linseed oil, and japan. Of the ingredients the pigment though specified by PRR standards, could be different from lot to lot and manufacturer to manufacturer.

This is the closest info I could find. Though years back I ran across a page from PRRs standards book, while searching out their engine shops,on mixing their engine colors. I recall reading that the shop foreman was responsible with verifying the pigment tone by mixing a set amount to see what color was achieved. Pigment that did not meet his approval was returned.

Though the info presented here specifies freight car mix, the same applied to their engine color. Pigment was added by the lb not run through a computer. Variations would occur so, though close, each batch was possibly different in finished tone. We see and hear an assortment of formulas to achieve Brunswick Green when in reality it’s still just a green hued black that we associate with the Pennsy.

http://steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/prr-carcolor.pdf

#13

Pete,

I just happened to be about 20 minutes from Strasburg today so I swung by and got these pics of your girl. I have a few more and if you want them PM me with your email and I will send them to you.

I tried to capture the “Brunswick Green” look …with these 2 pics. Notice the cab on 6755 and the cab on 3750 …They are both the same color but 3750 shows the green tinge. I can actually see the green tinge on your model but that is my eye.

As I read some where while researching historic colors years ago someone mentioned that " Black is not a color but green is within the correct light preferably eastern morning light". Possibly Downing or Rookwood but not sure as I focused heavily on the two.

#14

I tried to capture the “Brunswick Green” look …with these 2 pics. Notice the cab on 6755 and the cab on 3750 …They are both the same color but 3750 shows the green tinge. I can actually see the green tinge on your model but that is my eye.

Very interesting, and thanks for all the inputs. When my loco turns up I will be sure to inspect it in varying light situations to see if it shows any sign of green. The model looks pretty black to me.

Now, what livery should the coaches have in the pre-war era?

#15

Ooh, she is naked!

#16

Ooh, she is naked!

That’s what happens when they strip the asbestos off.

#17

When do you expect arrival of your new engine Pete? I will be ordering my new gauge one live steamer in a few days hopefully. The pic you posted look the most correct to my eyes. Only in certain light does the green really come out in the DGLE paint when its freshly applied. I think the greenish hue came out more on the diesels and GG1’s ect as they didnt have all the soot and grime that a steamer will pickup between major overhauls/repaints. Mike

#18

Mike Toney said:

When do you expect arrival of your new engine Pete? I will be ordering my new gauge one live steamer in a few days hopefully. The pic you posted look the most correct to my eyes. Only in certain light does the green really come out in the DGLE paint when its freshly applied. I think the greenish hue came out more on the diesels and GG1’s ect as they didnt have all the soot and grime that a steamer will pickup between major overhauls/repaints. Mike

Should be here early next week. I had them postpone shipping as I am moving back to Florida at the end of this week.
This photo, after photoshop ‘enhanced’ it, does look a bit greenish . . .

#19

Pete Thornton said: Now, what livery should the coaches have in the pre-war era?

Which war ?

#20

" Rooster " said:

Pete Thornton said: Now, what livery should the coaches have in the pre-war era?

Which war ?

That’s a good question.
I think people forget how long the K4 design was around.

According to page 159 in Alvin Staufer’s 1962 book Pennsy Power, 153 of them had been built by end of 1918.