Large Scale Central

Proprietary systems are better than everything else including DC

General Discussion
#41

Having been along the 27Mhz.TE road for not very long I had not thought about getting the new Revolution TE. I have followed a lot of posts about the system, pro and con, and now consider that I will get the new TE next year. (We are totally reliant on the importer this side of the pond unless we buy direct from the States) Well, I have more stock than I need, apart from some more two bay hoppers, so hopefully a track extension and the new TE should take care of any cash surplus. lol.

Thanks to all the publicity on most of the Fora, I am sure sales of the new TE have accelerated. Remember there are more readers than posters and most can see through a five bar gate.

#42

Alan.
I will have to agree with you re all the publicity.
In fact, the main opposition to the REVOLUTION in the USA, ie. Airwire and QSI + G Wire + Airwire/NCE are are still not legal to sell in the UK (or most other places for that matter) and therefore Mr Polk will have the markets to himself.
Smart marketting.

#43

Well Tony,

Lewis has been part of the hobby for some while now and knows the odds I guess. Anyway your products are not illegal here and do sell I understand.

As for me, the quote that ‘Dame’ from Oz - “just call me old fashioned” - comes to mind. All I want is something that is simple to operate, even when I am heading towards dementia, that I can keep in my shirt or jacket pocket. Otherwise the risk is leaving items out in the wet or forgetting where the dickens you left them can be a great possibility. lol

#44

Great going guys.
When I first joined this site it was really entertaining to watch you all go after one another. In fact you hi-jacked my first post but came up with some really good info and put me on track.
It has been kind of boring for the last few months.

Deano

#45

Alan. My sales have been somewhat restricted in the UK recently due to the heart attack suffered by Richard Longley completely halting his installation service. Fortunately Richard is on the mend and according to Shirley, will be back within a couple of weeks.

#46

Glad to hear Richard’s recovering.

(Okay, back to topic)

Later,

K

#47
Fred Mills said:
Good point, Tony.....and everyone jumps in like a flock of sheep......including me......!! 
He has won, hands down......!!!</blockquote>

Fred,

HJ said:
a lot of people digest whatever Lewis Polk says with a [b]dose of salt.[/b]
GARTENBAHNprofi 6/2009 arrived today, just as soon as I digested the review of the "Revolution" I'll translate it! Title reads "No Revolution". ;) :)
#48

Is that Epsom Salts, as in http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/epsom-salts.shtml ?? Supposed to relieve constipation. I don’t know about the verbal kind though. :wink:

#49

Gentlemen,

I’ll start with a brief bio; I’ve been interested in LS for many years and contribute occasionally to other forums. I have a few Bachmann engines and quite a few cars and coaches (all Bachmann). I’ll be up and running again in a new location (Ohio, USA) by this spring. I’m all about R/C+Battery and have one engiine set up with a 75MHZ TE and I love the concept. I’m not much interested in sound. And most importantly, I love this hobby and feel that it, like any other pursuit in life (other than work and politics) should be stress free and FUN.

Now to my point. I’m new to this forum and frankly I’m very disappointed in the contentious nature of this thread. And I’ve detected some of it in other threads as well. I’ve been able to identify the key players in this debate and know something about a couple the members of the attacking team. But most of the opposition is not familiar to me. I’ll be making a decision about my control system very soon and frankly I’m leaning toward the Revolution. I’m retired so this is a big expense for me. Therefore I don’t want to make a mistake. Some of you guys are key players in this business and therefore should be able to give good technical advice. But what most of the rest of us need to know is, will that advice be unbiased and fair? What we read is one guy saying about the other “you’re a liar” and the the other answering back “am not, you’re the liar” which leaves most of the rest of us confused and wondering what the hell is going on. Most of us don’t really care if the carrier frequency sideband is generated in the flux capacitor or in the backward wave oscillator but that’s what this debate is starting to sound like.

I’m not naive, I understand that every vendor will advertise his product’s strongest points and probably down play the weaker ones. And as I read the claims made by the many players in this market I should be able to make an informed decision about which product will serve me best. But as I read this thread, I’m left with the feeling that I can’t believe anything anyone says.

So, for the majority of the forum members for whom this is just a hobby, can someone PLEASE construct a no nonsense statement devoid of hyperbole, name calling, and nitpicking semantics, that clearly and honestly states the strong and not-so-strong points of the various control systems. I think we need something like, “this system is probably best for you if this is what you’d like to be able to do”.

I hope I haven’t offended anyone, if I have , I apologize,

Walt

#50

Hey, Walt, welcome aboard. Grab a cuppa and join in the discussin’. :lol:

You will find that we are all friends, here, especially when we disagree. Think of this as a bunch of old coots sitting around the pot bellied stove down at the station, waiting for the 10:27 to arrive. We even have a pool about how late she’ll be.

I think that for simplicity, you can’t beat the RCS systems. Give Dave Goodson a call, or drop him an email. You will find his ad on this page in the upper right hand corner.

SteveF

#51

Model Railroad News did a pretty fair review of the Revolution in their August issue. The comparison to other tyes of control are listed without the name calling. As comprehensive as it needed to be for my purposes. I am not prepared to comment on many of the members, but beleive Tony Walsham and Friar Fred to be incredible talents in both electronics and detail, and the both of them will tell it straight. I have dealt at least marginally with both and found them to be honorable men. When asked, either will provide excellent advice based on thier hard learned lessons.Many others of course are very talented whom I have not mentioned.

#52

Walter,
before laying out hard earned dollars on a new operating system, look to your current 75mhz system. Are you able to purchase additional components for it? 75 mhz components have been out of production for several years, give or take a year or two with the demise of the Korean chipset manufacturer. Since its inception back in the early 1990’s the manufacturer has gone through several component frequency changes with each ‘new’ system superceding and outdating the previous system with no built in backdating capability. This has enforced redundancy on the modeller. The latest system is based on ‘old’ mobile phone technology, apparently.

      Tony's RCS predates the above mentioned manufacturer and every item produced by Tony has had the ability to be used without mandated redundancy built into the product line.  I believe that Tony still has the ability to service even his earliest products.
      
      Simply because someone criticises your 'chosen' system does not imply that they are acting out of professional jealousy.  One really needs to look at what each manufacturer claims his product line will accomplish (plus his criticism of other operating systems) and then read independent reviews on each system before making up his mind.  Remember that several years down the track your new system may be redundant and parts unavailable from the manufacturer.
#53

Walter:

I agree with Tim. I was a complete beginner in this hobby a few years ago. I looked at what aristocraft said the 75 mhz system would do, and I invested in a bunch of the 75 mhz decoders. Turns out it never did exactly what was claimed, and shortly after I invested in it, Aristo discontinued it. I have a bunch of RX’s and two Tx’s which will eventually wear out. The 75 mhz system does work reliably, in a basic way. It just does not do what they claimed, and now it’s dead.

Now this kind of thing happens all the time–technology improves. I’ve got a lot of old VHS tapes and a player, gathering dust. But it made me a little suspicious–even though I have a lot of aristo stuff–3 locos and a number of freight cars, a lot of track. I think I can confidently say that the gap between hype and reality is a little wider with Aristo than it is with other manufacturers. One of the reasons I got interested in DCC was that it was a non-proprietary system. I could get decoders from various makers that would all run on my track, without having to get new transmitters. It manufacturer A went belly up, There were thre eor four othe rplayers in the game whose equipment would work.

That being said, the Revolution seems to be getting generally good reviews, and I would say that if you want to run on battery, and are not very interested in sound, it’s a good choice. If I ran on batteries, I would look at Tony Walsham’s systems, or I would look at the Airwire system, which allows you to run DCC. QSI’s decoders can be run on track and battery and include excellent sound for less than the cost of other solutions. Tony Walsham’s new Beltrol system can trigger the QSI sounds.

If you want to run on track power, it seems to me the Revolution is cludgy. If you want to add sound, it seems to me it’s behind the curve in terms of how it works. But I’m a track power/DCC guy, and I’m completely delighted with the way QSI/DCC works. QSI has posted a comparison on their website.

http://www.qsisolutions.com/news/09/gscale-sys-comparison-090409.html

People run their trains really differently, and need different things. Battery never made sense for me; for others it’s the perfect solution.

#54

I thank all of you for the words of praise of my RCS products.
I found a way of making Battery Powered radio control work reliably using a low cost small hand held system about 17 years ago now. Technically the way the RCS RF works has not changed since then. In fact the basic RF circuit was first introduced here in Australia in 1974. Over the years Elsema, who actually make the TX and RX, have introduced refinements, some under the own instigation and some at mine. The fact remains the RCS TX and RX’s will all still work together. New and old. The actual ESC’s have varied and may not always be 100% compatible but the TX and RX have not changed.

Recently I have taken advantage of the advances in RF technology to have a system created that uses the (very) low cost multi channel stick radios for long range and reliable operation.

The regular RCS equipment remains available as well and will continue to do so.
There are plenty of Large Scalers who wish to embrace battery R/C and do not require all the bells and whistles and will be happy with some of them.

Nowhere have I actually criticised my competitors products. I do however agree with the general philosophy of the thread starter, in that AristoCraft have made some quite, how shall I say it, over the top claims about their new system which Greg has seen fit to comment on.

On the other hand I do come into regular contact with locomotives produced by AristoCraft and have experienced mixed results. For one thing, I am highly critical of the lack consistency of the TRACK - BATTERY switch wiring, and the polarity of the pigtails coming out of the ends of the locos. That is part of the reason I refuse to consider offering ESC’s that can be powered by a constant voltage on the track. I simply do not want the grief that mis wired locos will bring me.
I have no hard facts to quote other than my own observations of the last 20+ years.
Those observations are, that I believe MOST of the failure problems associated with installing any Plug’n’Play R/C equipment are track power related.

#55

Hello Mike.

I should make it clear that whilst the BELTROL R/C equipment will run a QSI sound decoder, the pwm ESC’s are not suitable. They cannot set the idle voltage such that the loco will idle and not move when it is supposed to be stopped.
The BELTROL fully filtered DC ESC I do make works the QSI flawlessly. It is quite big and rated at 10 amps, is more suited to a trail car situation and requires at least 18 volts for the best performance.

That situation may change in the future.

#56

ok, you asked for it… :slight_smile:

I began over 5 years ago with RCS and continue with RCS, I’ve found no reason to even try another system, it works flawlessly for me. period.

cale

Dad of 4, 6 and under…all but the 18 mo old can handle the train with no problems! Simple enough!

#57
walter sarapa said:
.....

I’m not naive, I understand that every vendor will advertise his product’s strongest points and probably down play the weaker ones. And as I read the claims made by the many players in this market I should be able to make an informed decision about which product will serve me best. But as I read this thread, I’m left with the feeling that I can’t believe anything anyone says.

…


Well Walt, seeing is believing i.e. find one each of the systems in your neighbourhood or get to try them at shows.
To narrow it down make a list of “must have” features and weed out the systems which don’t offer what you must have.
As Tim pointed out, have a close look at “redundancy”. To me there’s nothing more annoying than a system that can’t easily and inexpensively be updated/expanded to the “newest and greatest” features. :wink: :slight_smile:

OTOH our 27" TV is also 20 years old. :open_mouth: :slight_smile:

#58

…and don’t be swayed by over the top exaggerated advertising.

Full page, full colour back page ads cost a lot of money, so ALL sales have to be maximised to pay for them.