Large Scale Central

Problem with the 'other' LS forum?

General Discussion
#21

tac Foley said:

Great shame, I think. A lot of good people post good stuff there. People, that is, who for some reason don’t post here. I like to get a well-rounded view of what is going on, without actually being part of any other forum that this one.

tac

Oh, I completely agree that it’s a shame. There’s a lot of information there, and some of it is still useful. Unfortunately, some folks like Vic lost every photo they ever posted in every thread there–which makes it a lot more difficult to follow along when Google directs you to a thread that now contains empty boxes instead of pictures. Not only was each lost image worth 1000 words, but in some cases the picture was about 99% of the explanation/answer. As an example, I have a 30" circle of Aristo track that I intended to–someday–make a pizza layout with [apparently, on this board my condition is known as Devoning :slight_smile: ]. When I do finally get around to starting it, it will be almost impossible to follow one of Vic’s pizza build threads as a guide, because now there are no images.

I didn’t in any sense intend to minimize the misfortune of those who lost their pictures, either. I’m sure that must be terribly frustrating, especially for anyone who was using the site as the main storage location for their train images. They have my condolences.

However, I find it subtly satisfying that an organization that completely blew off deleting thousands of image files, which were one of the reasons those threads were so helpful, is now suffering a technical glitch that leaves their ad-driven home page unreachable. I’m afraid I’m not above gently smiling in approval when what goes around, comes around :slight_smile:

D

#22

Let’s be truthful about it, guys, we are ALL losers when something like this happens, for whatever reasons. The trouble with chickens coming home to roost is that they invariably c*ap in your own hat.

tac

#23

My two weeks as a member of MLS have always made me appreciate LSC. This thread has once again reminded me of that and that I have been delinquent this past year in supporting the site. In remedy I sent BD a small donation today to help keep the doors open and to prevent the chickens (most likely Rooster) from C***ing in my hat as Tac says. If you have not otherwise supported this forum (bought an ad banner, sponsored a forum, bought a freight shed) I encourage you to do the same. After all Bob cannot buy his whiskey and donuts with platitudes of gratitude as the company store only accepts hard currency.

#24

If it was not for the live steam forums on MLS I would never go to it. Thats the only thing holding me back.

#25

MLS home page is working for me this morning! http://www.mylargescale.com

#26

Before this post turns into a grenade throwing session at MyLargeScale we need to stop and think about what the site has actually done for the hobby as a whole. I personally was just Google searching G-Scale one day and stumbled onto MLS. Through that sight, I found out about Marty’s event not to far from me. That first event changed me from a life long HO person to a G-Scaler in one day. It was actually thru some posts on MLS that I found out about LargeScaleCentral, and joined over here too. To answer something said earlier, I primarily posted in MLS because I’m one of those who doesn’t just post the same thing in multiple spots. Nothing against those who do, I just don’t take the time myself to do it. I’m not one of those who love this site, hate that site. I’m just to damn lazy to keep searching.

MLS was a great site for years under Shad’s ownership. And he was so well appreciated, site members banded together and voted him in to win a free cab ride on Union Pacific’s steamer. Thru that site, and Marty’s events I have met a lot of great people in the hobby who I consider good friends. Many of those people I found are also members on LSC. But we all know, life changes and Shad had to let MLS go. Whether he knew about the VS track record of letting sites die we won’t know. I have a feeling a lot of smoke was blown up his hind end, and he truly felt like it was the best for the site. Shad, like Bob; cared about the hobby, and it showed in his site. Bob’s site is still great for that reason. VS is a business, and they are going to run their site to profit them, and it will be the downfall to the site. I know they have screwed up really bad lately with the picture thing, and a lot of people are upset about that. I understand that, but beating the dead horse isn’t going to fix it.

I have read where people say the site is dying because of this reason or that. The site is dying because the old timers don’t post here anymore is a favorite. NO, the site is dying because YOU are letting it die. People move on in life, situations change and therefore they don’t participate in the site, or even the hobby anymore. That shouldn’t change what you do. YOU have to stop and think if what you are doing is contributing to a site’s existence, or it’s demise. VS f’d up badly with the photo thing. Can it be fixed? Is it being fixed? Nobody truly knows, it is just a bunch of guessing and to be frank; bitching too. One thing I can tell you, VS is a business. If the site isn’t profiting them, they aren’t going to maintain or fix it; and then we will lose it all. The membership will be the sole reason for that. If you were looking to get in the hobby and ran across MLS today, would you continue on thru the site? Would you look for others and find LSC? Or would you read the post about the site and hobby dying and just move on?

It doesn’t matter if you like MLS or not. It doesn’t matter if you like VS or not. It doesn’t matter if you posted solely on LSC or MLS. Nobody should be happy that site is dying. Nobody should be happy VS is getting what they deserve. Sites like LSC and MLS help support and grow the hobby and that is what is truly important. In the last few years this hobby has lost a major manufacturer. Another has pulled back on some of their products. Several of the small mom-and-pop shops have stopped operating. One of the greatest hobby shops ever closed it’s doors. Do we really want to lose a tool to bring exposure to our hobby?

I have started posting on LSC a lot more recently. I still post on MLS but less than I should. Why? A few of the people I know have moved over here exclusively. But more because I’m starting to meet people here, and starting to feel like I’m not the site noob. So to answer my own question, am I doing my part to help MLS survive? I would have to say no. But I need to change my line of thinking, and post over there AND over here. One thing I learned that is very different from HO to G scale people, is garden railroaders tend to bond together a lot tighter. I don’t know why, maybe there is an extra level of weirdness in us; but it just seems to be a more close knit group.

VS may be the catalyst, may be the excuse we will use to justify the death of MLS. But in the end, it will be the membership that will torpedo the ship.

Chris

#27

The biggest impact is that the new product pipeline has dried up, and new, upcoming products, reviews, opinions, fixes were a major part of the posts.

In the last few years before sale, it was clear that Shad was not in the hobby much anymore, and the labor of love had turned into a weight around his neck. He stated as much in numerous posts.

But the “architectural demise” of the system had been put in place already, with a cobbled together system, and the promises of better/new servers and software never appeared.

When VS bought the site, they inherited these issues, and unfortunately made no moves to fix the “two servers” problem.

So when the “kluge” broke, it really should not have been surprising. I knew that we did indeed have 2 different servers, which caused problems in synchronization of accounts, passwords, etc. I wish I knew that they weren’t even the same operating system, that would have explained a lot.

Now we have VS looking at fixing something that I am sure is not part of the way they usually do things. Hopefully they can take the pictures, and put them on the same server, but then they will have to do some stuff with the domain names so the original URL’s for the Windows server now take you to the new location of the files.

This is doable, but I really am apprehensive if it will come to fruition. I remain optimistic as long as they are working on it, although the long time that has elapsed since the original problem does not speak well for success.

For myself, who hosts his pictures elsewhere, it’s no big deal, but for the many people who took advantage of the picture hosting, it’s not only frustrating, but makes people lose confidence.

Greg

#28

Hi Chris, yeah it is a terrible thing that’s happening over at MLS, its a huge loss to the hobby but the worst part is that as near as we can figure, its the owners who are creating the climate that’s driving away the longer time users. For those who dont know what the drama is I’ll try to briefly describe the issue:

MLS has always had two levels of membership, basic free, and 1st class which had a membership fee, one of the perks of that membership was 100MB of photo storage space for hosting you pics, I have had that service since the early 2000s when I joined up at the Rusty Boat Show. Things happened and Shad had to sell the site to VS, which sent out emails to all the existing first class members that our 1st class privileges would continue under the new owners and since then it had. However, last Thanksgiving, overnight, access to those 1st class files disappeared, after some of the more computer savvy members dug around it was discovered that the page accessing the storage had somehow been eliminated, but that by using an FTP system access could be regained, but some of the files were completely erased, A-S member files were still intact, T-Z (including mine) were gone. After some prodding VS heamed and hawed that they were “looking into it” and “not sure what happened” and that tone of reply was pretty much the only reply we have gotten in the three months since. Then this last weekend the other shoe dropped, the remaining files A-S files disappeared, along with any access. FTP stopped working because there was nothing there for the FTP to access.

Word on the street has it that VS doesn’t fix problems and is only interested in how many adverts it can cram into a forum. So for many of us it would make sense that they would either through intent or neglect allow the not-paying-for-itself 1st Class storage to bite the dust so they didnt have to maintain it. The cold hard math is that they may lose 20-30 long time members, but for them that’s an acceptable loss when they are still getting 200-300 non-members clicking their adverts every day. We lose.

#29

I am not happy about MLS’s issues neither, although I chose long ago to not descend into that…place. When I was looking for online information on large scale I found them, and read 2 threads that turned into flame wars, name calling and insult throwing messes. Then I found LSOL. I was a happy LSOL member for many many years. But Jon lost interest and eventually pulled the plug. That’s when Larry Otis and Dave Bodner told me to come over here. This is a first class site, thanks to Bob’s stewardship and Bob will boot those who refuse to play nice. But if MLS does fail, and since the Aristo forum is now nearly devoid of new posts, and other sites have gone away (like the A.W.N.U.T.S.again site) that would leave LSC almost alone as an online forum for large scale. That cannot be good for the continued growth and health of the hobby. LSC is a great site, but the more sites the more exposure people can have to large scale, and the more exposure the more possibility for growth in the hobby. I hope MLS does get their act together, but, I have seen too many companies throw away their loyal customers, by chasing dollars. I fear that is what VS is doing and will continue to do.

#30

It’s back.

tac

#31

…but for how long? I got a message back from their Admin stating that at the time they purchased MLS they inherited a site that had some serious issues, this we already knew, Shad had to do things to keep the site running, but the reality is its been several years now since the sale, more than enough time to plan and implement necessary make-overs or changes, but they kept it as is for all this time until finally something let go, and now they are either playing catch up- or wait’um out? Which will it be?

#32

There’s a couple of ways to go through life… plan for the future, handle things before they get unmanagable, etc. OR wait for stuff to blow up and handle it crisis by crisis…

Greg

#33

Greg, yes. But isn’t it just so much easier to bury your head in the sand and pretend there isn’t a problem, right up until the explosion?

No, I don’t tend to play it that way neither. I guess its the “Mr. Fix It” in me.

#34

Goodness…

#35

David Maynard said:

But if MLS does fail, and since the Aristo forum is now nearly devoid of new posts, and other sites have gone away (like the A.W.N.U.T.S.again site) that would leave LSC almost alone as an online forum for large scale. That cannot be good for the continued growth and health of the hobby.

David you forget just because we are loosing forums we are still gaining in other areas. For example Facebook. I know some people don’t like FB for whatever reason and tha’ts OK it but if you want to help the hobby, Facebook and social media is the place. Just to give one example I have posted videos, photos etc. to my FB train page and shared it to some of the Facebook train pages like G scale trains and Garden Railroads. Whats nice I can see how many shares, likes views etc… I get. I have had videos get 4.5K views. We cant even get anything close to that on a summer photo thread or my youtube videos don’t even get that. I have seen many from here and other forums jump onto FB. Its amazing the amount of new posts by different people that occur on some of the more popular ones. Yes build logs are more difficult on Facebook but that’s when you post a link to your thread over here. That in return might get people interested in joining the forums. We cant complain when we don’t network to the areas where we know people are going like FB.

#36

Just an example this video got over 2k views. Average video gets over 1K thats not bad when compared to Forums. Plus it is reaching non train people through shares etc…

https://www.facebook.com/Kittatinnymtrr/videos/624013927785163/

#37

Facebook and other social media is a “right now” format. Good for photos or videos of what you are doing at that moment. They do not lend themselves well toward the long term. Could you imagine trying to follow along with some of these build posts on Facebook, let alone something that was done 6 months ago? As far as the hobby you have to think of social media as a sign, it attracts you and might get you in the door, but after that you will need a far more useful tool.

#38

Chris Kieffer said:

Facebook and other social media is a “right now” format. Good for photos or videos of what you are doing at that moment. They do not lend themselves well toward the long term. Could you imagine trying to follow along with some of these build posts on Facebook, let alone something that was done 6 months ago? As far as the hobby you have to think of social media as a sign, it attracts you and might get you in the door, but after that you will need a far more useful tool.

That is also what a lot of people like today, the right now format. Society has changed and if we want to attract new people to the hobby and the forums that might be the only way. Like I said build threads are difficult to do on forum.s Rather then doing the build thread on FB you can do it on the forum but post the link to FB That might get a few new people to follow and join LSC. I also learned to set up my own train page and post my build logs their. Then you can post the link as you update. Their are ways to get around it, you just have to learn how to do it. Its amazing how much more active the train pages on FB are then forums today and younger people. I have spent a lot of time on FB and see it. You also have to remember most people today are not into building their stuff, in ways, forums might not be the place to go for them. I have found forums to be more of a hassle with all the different topics to go through and a lot of threads that stay inactive for long periods. Like I said its not for everyone but the reality is that’s where the people are at today. I also have heard people say they hate forums because of the battles that do occur, something that does not happen on FB. In my eyes its a fun way to share the hobby and im having fun with it and a much different tone then forums

#39

I have been a member on LSC for about ten years, MLS for over 17 years and Facebook for about 9 years (FB on and off). I made privacy changes to my settings on FB so that I am not bothered in the “make friends deal”. I choose to add a friend rarely (I have probably less than 7 or 8). That way you keep the political BS way down. I find it easy to post photos on FB and I have found vendors for all the scales I work in that I NEVER seem to hear about on regular train forums.

We have had many prolific posters that used to post builds on MLS and LSC and they now do THAT on Facebook surprisingly! Marty Cozad was a big time 1/29th modeler and had a huge layout in Nebraska. Very well known. Had his big September Meet every year for 13-14 years. He started a build for his 1" scale layout about four years ago on MLS and I believe here on LSC. About two years ago, Marty posted less on MLS and LSC. I wondered what happened…so did a lot of others who were following the build and the great photos he always posted. Soon discovered that he was on FB with a great build log and tons of photos. Quite a few others on the train forums are doing FB now and posting great photos and videos.

Like Shawn said, Facebook is not for everyone, but there are a lot more train people there than you can imagine. And FB reaches many more people than the train “forums” will because of the cross connections with all other sites, BOTH on and off of FB. Facebook is not something to be “afraid of” :). Be saavy enough to deal with it in your privacy settings.

#40

Oh I understand the point (and power) behind Facebook. And that is where the youth go to for information these days. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a member; though not highly active. My point being that a lot of the things we do in this hobby take time, and FB is not as an effective tool as LSC or MLS for keeping that information in one central area where it is easy to follow along.

Chris