Large Scale Central

Possible Accucraft: D&RGW C-25 #375 and RGS #20

General Discussion
#1

There is some very exciting news in the recently distributed Spring Newsletter by Accucraft. Two medium sized locomotives may be put in production if there is enough interest. Both are excellent choices in my opinion, the D&RGW C-25 nicknamed ‘Baby Mudhen’ is not as large as any of the K-class and may be much easier to handle and use on smaller layouts. A similar locomotive C-21 was released earlier and it sold out relatively quickly. In live steam this new project can actually be executed much better than the C-21. I hope the C-25 will have slide valves and a single flue boiler. And I hope that it will have the same satin finish as K-28!!

Here is a page with photos of the #375 http://www.drgw.net/info/index.php?n=Main.DPL-C25 and this is the famous project of Vance Bass, http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/steam/c25/ where he also shows some near identical locomotives on other lines, in particular in Mexico http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/steam/c25/gallery.htm That would actually be cute, if Accucraft started to offer some South American versions of their locomotives, I would buy these!! Now, the second proposal hardly requires introducing, it is the RGS “ten-wheeler” #20, a model of this locomotive has been made by Berlyn a few years ago, but no single live steam version exists to the best of my knowledge, not even scratch built. This is a locomotive with beautiful lines and one of my favourite types.

The good news about the original is that it is now undergoing a complete restoration project, http://www.savethetrain.org/id45.htm Again, I hope that the live steam model will be equipped with slide valves single flue boiler and will have satin finish. Of course, the fate of both projects is in the hands of those who would be willing to buy these locomotives, so if you are as excited about these as please let folks at Accucraft know this! Ms. Claudia Vera (510) 324-3399 email: [email protected] Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

#2

Z,
Dropped a $300 deposit, uh, let’s see, about 2 years ago for the SP “Slim Princess.”
It ain’t here yet.
Don’t hold your breath.

Coming up on one year for the passenger cars.

#3
John Bouck said:
Z, Dropped a $300 deposit, uh, let's see, about 2 years ago for the SP "Slim Princess." It ain't here yet. Don't hold your breath.

Coming up on one year for the passenger cars.


John, of course, an average product development duration at Accucraft is about 3.5 years. Noone is questioning this, but look at this from a different perspective. Would you prefer the project to be announced just when the locomotives are (ready to) being delivered to the dealers? I actually prefer to participate to some very tiny of course extent in the actual development process (in some cases not so tiny, as was the case with the Mason-Bogie) The list of interesting releases is huge, and I just hope that I will actually have the funds for these locomotives in 3-4 years time, and some 10 locomotives further;-)… but, if they do not get put on the drawing board, the simple truth is we will not see them as noone else is going to build them. There is only one other C-25 in existence as far as I know, a coal fired model by Mr David Bailey, but if I wait for one of these, it will be twice as long I fear, and the cost will be twice as high, at least. By the way, I am also waiting for the SP Slim Princess but I believe the announcement was only a year ago or so, so you must have been very early with the deposit. I believe it should see the light of day in mid 2010. Best wishes, Zubi

#4

You are a very patient person. Once I decide on something I want it now. Express delivery is a wonderful thing.LOL

#5

Mike, both approaches have their pros and cons. Anticipating something may also be a rewarding experience. Best, Zubi

#6

I’m just glad to see positive development in 1:20.3. If it takes 3 years, so be it, so long as they get it right! My understanding with the passenger cars is that they halted things long enough to fix some user reported problems, and meanwhile came up with some other ideas to release … again, not a bad approach.

Matthew (OV)

#7

Matthew, I share the same opinion with you. Accucraft people are definitely learning, also from their own mistakes. In addition, they receive considerable input from their customers and from some expert modellers and operators. Finally, the people who commission models at Accucraft from USA, UK and Germany are not only business minded but also experienced, skilled live steam model developers and they know what they are doing. Will Accucraft get these two locomotives right? I do not know, but the chances are high(er) that they will be better models than they would have been if produced say five or ten years ago. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

#8

I agree, much better to do it right the first time. Has anyone ever figured out what the impact of “3 years from announcement to delivery” as against “quick delivery with many shortcomings” is? :wink: :slight_smile:

#9
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
... Has anyone ever figured out what the impact of "3 years from announcement to delivery" as against "quick delivery with many shortcomings" is? ;) :)
Hans-Joerg, Impact on what? Could you please elaborate somewhat? Zubi
#10

Zubi,

Future sales, browned-off customers etc. etc. you know the kind of stuff that either makes it or breaks it for a mfg.

#11

Hmm… Hans-Joerg, my guess would be the first business model is much much better, as I also argue above. There is a considerably lower chance to get things (very) wrong if you let future customers participate to some degree in the development. It is also more fun for the said customers, IMHO. Currently, we observe this trend more and more as there is also less competition in this segment of the hobby. I see how Aster is doing this on their own Japanese market. Three years seems like a long time, but in live steam where series are short and book orders full, three years is a norm if you commission your model from any respectable builder (especially those very small volume manufacturers). I agree that Accucraft is actually more medium volume and they tend to stretch customers patience to limits, but then they have a huge list of projects (if you only count the already announced narrow gauge steam engines they have currently 8 in US, 2 in DE and 4 in UK and this is without the two that we are talking about in this thread!) If they really release all these engines within the coming 36 months that would be on average (52*3)/(8+2+4)=11 weeks for one engine… how does this sound? Best, Zubi

#12

Really surprised at your excitement of these 1:20 models, since you seem to convinced that 1:22.5 is the “ideal”.

#13

Well, I suppose that you could do it like Aristo does, and not announce a product until it is well down the pipeline.

edit: clumsy fingers

#14
Curmudgeon said:
Really surprised at your excitement of these 1:20 models, since you seem to convinced that 1:22.5 is the "ideal".
Dave, it all depends on the proto and the scale vis a vis the gauge. i.e. it is really perfect for Meter Gauge trains running on 45mm gauge. ;) :)
#15
Curmudgeon said:
Really surprised at your excitement of these 1:20 models, since you seem to convinced that 1:22.5 is the "ideal".
Yes Curmee, That is the only serious drawback of these models of course, they should be in 1:22.5 but that goes without stating. Still some manufacturers are stuck in the wrong scale and noone else seems to be willing to produce anything useful... However, in live steam, the larger the better, and this is my motivation for getting some of these models. While I try to keep my electric collection uncontaminated, I now have as many as 4 scales in my live steam, and will probably end up having more, ideally 1:1 too;-)) Best wishes, Zubi PS and did I mention that 1:22.5 is ideal?
#16

Ok I may stir up a storm of sorts here but lets look at the MFG’s that we have (and have had) and the philosophy of annoucing products. Seems to me that Accucraft annouces a product and then sticks to that promise. They take a while but they follow thru. I remember Bachman back in the 80’s annoucing a LS 44 tonner than never came to be. Aristo has many itmes that never are or were. USAT pretty much follows thru on their annoucements but again not in a timely manner. LGB always followed thru on the annual annoucments but then when it is “mostly” re-paints that isn’t tough. Still who is in business and who is bankrupt? So how ticked are we as consumers to be strung along by promises of product three years in the pipeline or on maybes that never will happen? Apparently not enough?

Just food for thought. I know many of you ahve much more info on this than I do and I may not have my “facts” straight but my commetns are my observations and perceptions and are therefore skewed.

Chas

#17

How long have people been waiting for that KISS K type?
Announced three-- four years ago. In 1:22.5
There’s no excuse for that delay!
It’s still on their website, last time I checked.

#18
John Bouck said:
How long have people been waiting for that KISS K type? Announced three-- four years ago. In 1:22.5 There's no excuse for that delay! It's still on their website, last time I checked.
John, one thing is certain, you've been waiting too long;-) they are essentially sold out now;-( Only Cumbres and Toltec #487 is left... Best, Zubi PS they were released in the Autumn of 2006.
#19

Z,
So according to its number, it’s a K36. Correct?
Do you have one?

#20
John Bouck said:
Z, So according to its number, it's a K36. Correct? Do you have one?
John, Correct and yes, I have one Rio Grande #487, Best, Zubi