Vic Thanks for the info. Slight changes make all the difference. Having not owned any I was going on sight alone. Not so wise on my part.
TOC I guess we will wait and see. As a 1:29 modeler I’d like to see someone pick up where Aristo leaves off.
I am not getting into the controversies listed here. My only concern is that we will be losing a supplier of (my guess) 40% of our trains. 100% of mine. Granted it will take a while to deplete the stock on hand, but eventually there will be less choice. We all have interests and preferences, and one provider of trains to us is going away. I am very sorry to see that.
Paul
Paul I doubt we will “lose” them for long, if the tooling is owned by Kader, then whats being lost is the business entity known as “Polk Hobbies” not the physical plant of the company.
The biggest difference between this and the Big Hindenburg event, is that EPL actually owned the tooling and machinery used to produce their line, when the company folded all that got swept up into the bankruptcy proceedings. Aristo by comparison appears instead to have used the toy world model and contracted with Sanda Kan now Kader for their stock production, Kader does the development, tooling, and fabrication for contracted stock paid for and delivered to New Jersey.
If this indeed is the case as we suspect, then like Dave observes, Kader owns the physical plant and can produce the entire line of items they own the tooling for under their own or subsidiary name anytime they are legally in the clear to do so, probably not until the legal aspects of Polk hobbies closing takes place on New Year Eve, 90 days?
Like Dave points out, the pieces are dovetailing together rather too coincidentally for all this to be random.
todd whittier said:
I know it’s not as finely detailed but I need some more of the 2 bay hoppers and to me a hopper is a hopper.
Todd,
When Newqida’s “stuff” hit the market and a lot of people were adamant that it came out of the LGB moulds - they just knew it had to be! - I bought some of the RhB Gbk-v type.
Then I measured, took pictures etc. etc. of the LGB car and the Newqida knock-off. Anyone who has an inkling of tool making can tell that it is not LGB’s tooling.
That said, the Newqida stuff was the best bang for the buck to do some kitbashing and converting, but prices have gone up.
BTW one guy in Europe (not a dealer) does regular “Direct from China” imports after he collects enough orders from his LS friends. Worked well so far and as TOC mentioned that could probably be done with other Chinese producers.
Let’s look at it an other way.
Let’s say for the point of argument that Aristo owns the tooling, that the stuff I have been told, including from one who worked for/with Aristo is wrong.
If Aristo just closes, and goes away…no bankruptcy, no court appointed adminstrator to part with the “assets”, who, again, holds the tooling?
And once Aristo is out of the picture…what would happen then?
Newristo.
Just a speculation on an alternative…
TOC
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
my epiphany was this quote, related to me by someone who was in a meeting in the PRC, told this by the (then) head guy:
“You stupid Americans. Playing with toys while we industrious Chinese are busy making money”.Brings to mind a certain fire in Rome… and a certain fiddler.
They only do it because we permit it.
Running a good business is just as engaging as playing with trains.
Perhaps some folks will grab some of the the many business opportunities that present themselves at this unique time. The occasion won’t last long and won’t come again in your lifetime!
Voice of experience here.
Sad to see so much bitterness and contempt towards a good company and the good people that run it. There might not be much of a hobby if it weren’t for them in the early formative years of G Scale.
Aristo’s Aixa Lebron has helped hundreds of us get what we needed or wanted, and been as professional, courteous and helpful a company representative as I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. After 25 years with Aristo she is unemployed, as are several other good people.
Much has been lost here.
It’s no time for pettiness and the haters should at least show a little class.
Tim
I keep reading about “haters,” but I don’t really know to whom the referral is being made. Can you help me out a little bit, Tim?
Tim McCabe said:
Sad to see so much bitterness and contempt towards a good company and the good people that run it. There might not be much of a hobby if it weren’t for them in the early formative years of G Scale.
Aristo’s Aixa Lebron has helped hundreds of us get what we needed or wanted, and been as professional, courteous and helpful a company representative as I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. After 25 years with Aristo she is unemployed, as are several other good people.
Much has been lost here.
It’s no time for pettiness and the haters should at least show a little class.
Tim
I certainly don’t see pettiness and bitterness, nor contempt, at least no more than has been directed towards them over the past decades.
Did you re-read the TATE interview I posted, what, from four weeks ago?
You think they hadn’t made these plans already?
To come out and say what they said, and three weeks later announce they are gone (and in between we got the e-mail from Navin saying he had committed to Aristo repair through 2014) is, in my personal opinion, not only reprehensible but typical.
That “interview” was done to rally the troops, to cause hate and discontent, to cause the Faithful to engage in “bashing” on these very forums reminiscent of the EPL debacle.
Tell me (and all of us) that you can’t see that.
I want to hear it from you.
TOC
Tim McCabe said:
Sad to see so much bitterness and contempt towards a good company and the good people that run it. There might not be much of a hobby if it weren’t for them in the early formative years of G Scale.
Aristo’s Aixa Lebron has helped hundreds of us get what we needed or wanted, and been as professional, courteous and helpful a company representative as I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. After 25 years with Aristo she is unemployed, as are several other good people.
Much has been lost here.
It’s no time for pettiness and the haters should at least show a little class.
Tim
Interesting!
I remember when LGB went into receivership the reaction was “buy, buy, buy”, if anyone would like to apply that in order to support Aristo - or would have liked to do that for some months in the past - they were SOL, ther was nothing or very little to be had. A company that has nothing to deliver is out of business in very short order. Now this wasn’t just the last few months, this has been going on for some time. So to blame “the haters” and everyone else who seems convenient is really stupid.
Let us hope whoever picks up the dropped ball knows how to run with it. Frankly, I’m sick and tired to read yet more excuses why Aristo is closing and everyone but the Polk’s being responsible. Give me a break!
Steve Featherkile said:
I keep reading about “haters,” but I don’t really know to whom the referral is being made. Can you help me out a little bit, Tim?
Page 326 of The Book, Steve. Accuse with no support. Worked for the RBB, why not here?
And they wonder why the moniker KAD has been applied. Read the “Interview” and you’ll see…it was directed to get the Faithful riled up…we gotta stop these unfounded rumours.
Which rumours were unfounded, again?
Oh, yeah, the ones in the “Interview”.
It is utterly amazing to watch this…and when their bubble gets burst wide open, suddenly everybody else is the cause of it.
Hogwash.
TOC
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Tim McCabe said:
Sad to see so much bitterness and contempt towards a good company and the good people that run it. There might not be much of a hobby if it weren’t for them in the early formative years of G Scale.
Aristo’s Aixa Lebron has helped hundreds of us get what we needed or wanted, and been as professional, courteous and helpful a company representative as I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. After 25 years with Aristo she is unemployed, as are several other good people.
Much has been lost here.
It’s no time for pettiness and the haters should at least show a little class.
Tim
Interesting!
I remember when LGB went into receivership the reaction was “buy, buy, buy”, if anyone would like to apply that in order to support Aristo - or would have liked to do that for some months in the past - they were SOL, ther was nothing or very little to be had. A company that has nothing to deliver is out of business in very short order. Now this wasn’t just the last few months, this has been going on for some time. So to blame “the haters” and everyone else who seems convenient is really stupid.
Let us hope whoever picks up the dropped ball knows how to run with it. Frankly, I’m sick and tired to read yet more excuses why Aristo is closing and everyone but the Polk’s being responsible. Give me a break!
Good job, HJ.
Anyone who has ever got on the wrong side of the master would have definately received THAT email, you know the one, “Why do you want to destroy my business. How come your opinion is more important than mine. I know how to run my own business.” Well there is a saying, the buck stops here. Pity the general did not take the gracious way out and fall on his sword. Perhaps many would have more respect. “It’s not my fault, all you haters ruined my business”. Give us a break.
I honestly do not know anyone who actually HATES Aristo. I know many who have sought to improve the product line by not only highlighting defects in the product, but also methods to improve the line. How were they treated? Well, the typical response was firstly rally the henchmen into action by bullying the person on the manufacturer forum, followed up by the accusing email from himself demanding to know why you are killing off his business.
In case you do not know who the henchmen are then look on the manufacturer site and look to those who idolise the man himself. Suddenly, some names become all too familiar in their relentless pursuit of those dastardly ‘haters’. When put on the spot these henchmen, without the backup of their supporters turn to water and cry foul because they are asked to support their point of view. They have no credibility.
Will some one have the backbone to stand up and accept responsibility for the failure of the company so these rose coloured glass wearing ventilators can get on with their lives and seek out another lost cause.
This is nothing to do with high fives anf golf claps. Do you really think that Bachmann would have invested in metal gears for a loco more than ten years out of production if those dastardly Bachmann ‘haters’ had not campaigned long and hard regarding the split gear issue? Look to the continual upgrades on the humble Big Hauler and Annie locomotives. Consumer input is vital to ensure a reliable product. Criticising those who take a stance against a manufacturer is effectively killing off the product. Failure on the manufacturer’s part to respond positively to legitimate criticism will have the impact we are now experiencing.
No one outside of Aristo wanted Aristo to fail. I think even Charlie would have preferred Aristo to survive just to make his product look so much better built. If you want to know why Aristo failed then follow the money trail and the timeline. You cannot withdraw operating capital from a company and leave it without sufficient finance to maintain a reasonable stock level. I remember the monthly postings on the manufacturer site detailing the new stock arriving that month, sometimes bi-monthyl. Suddenly those container shipments dwindled while apparently stock piled up over in PRC awaiting the cheque in the mail.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Frankly, I’m sick and tired to read yet more excuses why Aristo is closing and everyone but the Polk’s being responsible. Give me a break!
What are you reading that I’m not?
Lewis mentioned several million dollars invested in new product development, insurmountable debt, and the poor economy.
Looks to me like he lays the blame squarely on himself…he borrowed heavily during a poor economy 
And yes, it is quite possible Lewis planned on sustaining operations 3 weeks ago.
They may have been trying to renegotiate the debt, or secure alternative financing for a debt that had been called.
Sh*t happens…it’s not always a conspiracy 
Ralph
Curmudgeon mcneely said:
Steve Featherkile said:
I keep reading about “haters,” but I don’t really know to whom the referral is being made. Can you help me out a little bit, Tim?
Page 326 of The Book, Steve. Accuse with no support. Worked for the RBB, why not here?
And they wonder why the moniker KAD has been applied. Read the “Interview” and you’ll see…it was directed to get the Faithful riled up…we gotta stop these unfounded rumours.Which rumours were unfounded, again?
Oh, yeah, the ones in the “Interview”.
It is utterly amazing to watch this…and when their bubble gets burst wide open, suddenly everybody else is the cause of it.
Hogwash.
TOC
I know, Dave, I just wanted to see if he had a pair. I’m still waiting.
Ralph Berg said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Frankly, I’m sick and tired to read yet more excuses why Aristo is closing and everyone but the Polk’s being responsible. Give me a break!
What are you reading that I’m not?
Lewis mentioned several million dollars invested in new product development, insurmountable debt, and the poor economy.
Looks to me like he lays the blame squarely on himself…he borrowed heavily during a poor economyAnd yes, it is quite possible Lewis planned on sustaining operations 3 weeks ago.
They may have been trying to renegotiate the debt, or secure alternative financing for a debt that had been called.
Sh*t happens…it’s not always a conspiracy
Ralph
Who said it’s a conspiracy?
My first impression of Aristo’s business model was back in the early 2Ks when Lewis picked up his ball and went home after he got flak on MLS about the defects in his products, shortly after he had his own forum.
Not long after he was looking for the metric equivalents of his gazillion track pieces, which I calculated and forwarded to him. Not as much as a “Received, Thank You”.
Frankly, no skin off my nose, just another instance of “I’m so mighty”; on the same par as Rolf Richter (RIP) handing a pamphlet to my buddy at GBp after a discussion of LGB’s merits as far as scale was concerned. My buddy chuckled when it happened and I laughed when I heard about it. Obviuosly RR was not amused by my “G - wie Gummi” moniker.
Everyone has to live with his/her own business model, the market takes care of the rest.
Ralph Berg said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Frankly, I’m sick and tired to read yet more excuses why Aristo is closing and everyone but the Polk’s being responsible. Give me a break!
What are you reading that I’m not?
Lewis mentioned several million dollars invested in new product development, insurmountable debt, and the poor economy.
Looks to me like he lays the blame squarely on himself…he borrowed heavily during a poor economyAnd yes, it is quite possible Lewis planned on sustaining operations 3 weeks ago.
They may have been trying to renegotiate the debt, or secure alternative financing for a debt that had been called.
Sh*t happens…it’s not always a conspiracy
Ralph
Anything’s possible. I remember the recent mention of another investor, or did I mis-read something?
Maybe. Maybe naught. Possibly they had to publish the “Interview” to save face and put off the announcement for a month. But, in the meantime, there was the e-mail from Navin, stating he was handling Revo and had committed to Aristo repairs through 2014.
Not much need to mention that if the decision hadn’t been made.
Add to that the cancelling of all ads over two months ago, the admission that the warehouse was up for sale 01SEP2013…a month before the “announcement”.
But, here we are discussing facts…I wonder if that is “hatred” and “contempt”?
Steve Featherkile said:
I keep reading about “haters,” but I don’t really know to whom the referral is being made. Can you help me out a little bit, Tim?
I agree. I don’t read any contempt or bitterness toward Aristo or the Polk family into any of the posts in this thread. I think all of us can agree that Lewis & company did a lot to enhance and promote this hobby regardless of what you may think of their products.
I am very sorry to see them go and feel bad for the long-term employees many of whom I had the pleasure to know.
Lewis will have a worry free retirement that hopefully he can enjoy. I also agree that we haven’t seen the last of the product line regardless of who owns the tooling.
Selling the warehouse…something you would do to raise capital.
No GRW ads…may not have been of their choice
Isolating a debt free business from a debt laden business…smart thing to do even if you are still trying to save the debt laden business.
Certainly, by the time Navin sent out the email regarding repairs, the decision had been made.
But that was just a day or two before the announcement.
Either way, it really doesn’t matter. The end result was the same.
Ralph