Large Scale Central

Polks Generation Next TrainWorld TV Interview!

Vic, not skeptical, just realistic… fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Another, base future on past performance.

David, funny you should state this, I emailed Scott just last Friday to tell him I thought he should manufacture the “D-cut” wheels and axles that were available on the last run of SD-45 locos.

For those of you who don’t know what this is, in their last days, Aristo made some axles that were not tapered, but “straight” with a flat on one side (thus the end of the axle looks like a “D”)

The wheels had the corresponding “chord” filled in the hole, and you COULD set the gauge by removing the wheel and adding a shim washer, or trimming some off the end of the axle.

A huge milestone that many people missed.

Now, it’s not so simple for the steamers, but an immediate solution for all the Aristo diesels.

I hope Scott can do it, I do believe there is a huge market for the replacement wheels, with all the worn platings and out of gauge wheelsets.

Regards, Greg

Jon Radder said:

I wouldn’t expect any new product (other than re-paints) or re-engineered product from Scott for at least several years. He is starting on a shoestring and is pretty much a one-man shop. If he is successful marketing reissues to the point he can afford to invest in the engineering then you might see some improved or new product.

John I agree. But I do have to wonder about the new drives for the Consolidation. Supposedly Aristo had built and tested those drives and they were to be in in August, the August before Aristo dried up and blew away. So the tooling supposedly exists for the new drives. Unless that story was just a story too.

Greg, I knew about the D end axles, and on the other site, I stated how that would solve a lot of problems. The D ended shafts are common in copiers. The gear, or in this case, the wheel, doesn’t slip on a D end shaft (axle). Scott could have a decent market if he wanted to get into upgrade/repair parts for the fleet of Aristo product that is already out there. But I am not sure he sees it that way, or that he would want to get into that side of the market.

David, there are no new “drives”, the only thing that could be changed would be the wheels or axles to get gauge in place, and the wheel contour is bad, flanges too thick.

I’m not sure what a big deal the “D cut” is, and I’m trying to educate him.

Greg

Folks, let me toss in my two cents solely from an observation perspective. Many of you have commented on Scott’s statements on what is down the pike and what you all believe is what is to pass. What no one has commented on is Scott’s statement at the 1:21 mark of “…there are some people behind the scenes…”. This can be interpreted in many ways, but I think most will agree that this is an indicator that there are “silent partners” in this venture. In my opinion, herein lies the first rub in the what is to come scenario. Dependent on what percentage ownership Scott holds (how much power he wields in the company) and how much faith the ‘partners’ have in Scott’'s ability to fulfill the business model he presented to them will have a major impact on future offerings.

For the conversation, lets assume that everyone in Scotts sandbox is on board with his vision and he has a free hand. The next rub I see is that Scott does not produce nor engineer any of the product he sells. That is all done by the PRC manufacturer, as has been hashed out many times on this forum. Therefore any changes to the methodology of the manufacture of the item will be governed by the manufacturer. Strictly from a PRC manufacturer’s point of view, “Why change my tooling, unless you are willing to pony up the dollars to do so?”. That said, from personal experience with a company I worked for where we provided the engineering and an onsite inspector, the PRC manufacturer still controlled the manufacturing reigns, and did it ‘his way’. The company spent weeks fixing the issues stateside.

In my opinion, the highest possibility for a fix for existing Aristo steam issues will be as David M stated, an individual modeler with machining capability, and willingness to do a cottage business making fixes. Without knowledge of the number of units sold, providing the basis for an educated geustimation of the volume of axle/wheels required, I don’t think too many will be willing to invest the necessary time to develop a fix they will be proud to stand behind. If there really were a sound basis for this cottage industry, I would think someone would have already picked up the ball and run with it. As a mechanical design professional I will present the following information. First, one would need to determine the gear on the driven axle(s) to determine a source if the factory gear can not be re-used. Second, the existig axle will most likely not have enough remaining material to alter the existing axle, so new will be the order of the day. Third, the wheels may or may not be able to be re-used. IF, there is enough meat in the hub of the wheel, the wheel may be bored out and a bushing may made and press fit into the existing wheel. This process would be a bit time consuming to first generate a fixture to properly align the crank pin and the flat spot on the bushing so proper quartering can be maintained. The the time to do the pressing, one wheel at a time. Should the existing wheel not be re-usable, I would opt for a new brass investment cast wheel. This would require first making the master, and then the funds to do a production run (to minimize per unit cost). Could be a sizable investment with no real certainty of a return.

Greg’s comment on the SD-45 axles does elude to the acknowledgement that the issure really does exist, and maybe future new or major re-design may be upgraded to a more reliable design. Maybe there is a glimmer of hope.

I am not a big Aristo fan nor an Aristo basher, but I do wish Scott well in his endeavour to be the Phoenix that brings Aristo out of the ashes. I believe he has a tough row to hoe in that he is fighting two major deamons. First, the closing of Aristo/Polk Hobbies has left a bitter taste in a lot of mouths. Some may return as purchasers, others not. The secone deamon is the economy itself. I can’t speak for everyone, but I keep hearing how the economy is coming back, but my dollar still seems to keep getting smaller in purchasing power. Let’s face facts. Our hobby depends on ‘disposable income’. The less people have the less they are going to spend. Personally I have cut back on hobby spending as I believe many others have. Starting a new discressionaly income based business in a soft economy is an uphill battle at best. Again, i wish Scott all the best.

FWIW, Bob C.

Greg Elmassian said:

David, there are no new “drives”, the only thing that could be changed would be the wheels or axles to get gauge in place, and the wheel contour is bad, flanges too thick.

I’m not sure what a big deal the “D cut” is, and I’m trying to educate him.

Greg

Greg, so Navin lied to me a year and half ago? Yea, it figures.

Aristo did announce that the new drives were being made for the Consolidations, Pacifics and Mikados in their Insider magazine, I don’t recall what issue. Navin said he was expecting them late July. So in August I got in touch with him, and he told me they weren’t in yet. When the announcement came that Aristo was closing its doors, I got in touch with Navin again. Part of the conversation was about the new drives, and he said they won’t be coming. I expected that, but I figured it didn’t hurt to ask. I thought that maybe they had a few pre-production units.

Bob, I don’t know how many Pacifics, Mikados and Consolidations are out there. But there must be thousands. But to make a new drive, with new axles, wheels, and gearboxes would be expensive. I know that. But with a large potential customer base of Aristo locomotives, and the small scratch-building market, it might be viable for a cottage industry. I don’t know if it would, but it might.

Greg Elmassian said:

Vic, not skeptical, just realistic… fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Another, base future on past performance.

David, funny you should state this, I emailed Scott just last Friday to tell him I thought he should manufacture the “D-cut” wheels and axles that were available on the last run of SD-45 locos.

For those of you who don’t know what this is, in their last days, Aristo made some axles that were not tapered, but “straight” with a flat on one side (thus the end of the axle looks like a “D”)

The wheels had the corresponding “chord” filled in the hole, and you COULD set the gauge by removing the wheel and adding a shim washer, or trimming some off the end of the axle.

A huge milestone that many people missed.

Now, it’s not so simple for the steamers, but an immediate solution for all the Aristo diesels.

I hope Scott can do it, I do believe there is a huge market for the replacement wheels, with all the worn platings and out of gauge wheelsets.

Regards, Greg

Greg, spot on!

Designing an axle/wheel combo using a taper is just not very smart. As I mentioned before, unless one has top notch QC and the necessary machining capacity one is just asking for trouble.

D-axles work well, square inserting axles for rod engines work even better. Quartering problems solved in one easy operation, with modern multi-axis machine tools it’s a no-brainer.

As regards the plating, they could just as soon nitrite the wheels.

Bob Cope said:

Folks, let me toss in my two cents solely from an observation perspective. Many of you have commented on Scott’s statements on what is down the pike and what you all believe is what is to pass. What no one has commented on is Scott’s statement at the 1:21 mark of “…there are some people behind the scenes…”. This can be interpreted in many ways, but I think most will agree that this is an indicator that there are “silent partners” in this venture. In my opinion, herein lies the first rub in the what is to come scenario. Dependent on what percentage ownership Scott holds (how much power he wields in the company) and how much faith the ‘partners’ have in Scott’'s ability to fulfill the business model he presented to them will have a major impact on future offerings.

I recall having heard that “behind the scenes” statement from another LS mfg. But it just never happened. In this case I believe it when I see it; not that I’m overly concerned, Aristo never offered anything that fits my scheme of things, other than the switching layout that should get finished “any day now”*.

  • A flexible statement with plenty of excuse clauses.

HJ, as always it is not what is said that counts, it is what is NOT said. That is why I prefaced my post as I did. I read the demise of Aristo (for whatever reason) over a year before the announcement that Lewis was closing.

Quite right, Bob.

BTW according to a reliable source, when Lewis used to attend the Nürnberg Fair, it wasn’t what wasn’t said, it was what was said that raised eyebrows. Enough statements , promises etc. that didn’t come true resulted in many of the people in the industry to take Lewis’ statements with a grain of salt (or two).

As mentioned lets see the goods, the improvements etc.

Never mind the man behind the curtain!