Large Scale Central

Phoenix PB9 Install?

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

Just wondering if anyone has any pics or info on installing these units…i’ll be running analog…magnets between the ties for bell and whistle… I want to do what i think will be a simple install…putting everything in/under the tender ,and picking up power from either the plug at the rear of the tender ,or splicing into the wiring inside the tender… The unit is going in this LGB French Mikado…

both the train and the sound unit are at dads house ,so i haven’t seen the 2 parts together yet :slight_smile: what i do know (so far) is that i can put reed switches under the tender to activate the bell and whistle ,just like i’ve done in the past with LGB’s 65001 sound unit… and i also know i can use a third reed switch ,and magnets on the inside of the wheels ,to get the chuff sound… so what i’m really curious about is speaker mount/placement (the engine does have a speaker grill under it ,but i’m wanting to work only with the tender) …board mount/placement…and maybe clever ways to hide the on/off switch and volume controls…

#2

Hi Richard Don’t know if this will help you much but here are some shots of a PB9 installed in a Bachmann K27. I use a Train Engineer Revolution and track power. This is a shot of the PB9 board and you can see the speaker under the other boards.

(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/trainman57/mail%20pics/DSCN2207.jpg)

I use a reed switch and magnets mounted on the tender axles for chuff control. The magnets are JB welded to the axle. This does not time the chuffs to the drivers but works OK for me.

(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/trainman57/mail%20pics/DSCN2206.jpg)

I mounted the volume control, the switch in this pic on the side of the tender. When I put the coal load in place it covers it up but is easily accessible.

(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab29/trainman57/mail%20pics/DSCN2208.jpg)

I activate the bell and whistle from the Revolution transmitter so they are totally user controlled. I am heading into my second season with the Phoenix and am totally satisfied with it. Ron

#3

EXCELLENT PICTURES RON!!! :slight_smile: just what i was looking for…

i had no idea the unit was so tiny…

and very creative the way you use the coal load as a cover…i like it…

now a few questions ,as i haven’t been able to read the booklet yet???

the “jack” next to the switch is for charging?? or for adding speakers to the system ,say a second engine??? i did see it is a 'stereo" plug ,when i peeked in the book…

the volume switch is like a 3-way light switch?? each bump right makes it louder…each bump left softer???

any issue with losing chuffs when going around a curve ,since your reed switch is on the frame and your trucks rotate??

:slight_smile: i know it’s a bunch of questions ,but i’m off to work now ,and wanted to be sure i didn’t miss anything while i have your attention…

THANKS AGAIN!!!

#4

Ron knows his stuff Richard, has helped me with a whole lot a other things as well

#5

Hi Richard
Yes, it is a very small unit. Download the manual from Phoenix’s website before you start. It will answer most of your questions that arise during installation. I’m no electronics expert but had it working on my first try.

The “jack” next to the switch is for configuring the system. I think it is also used to connect a computer to the system if you buy the extra programming stuff. I haven’t played with that part of it too much so am not really familiar with it’s uses. Because I run the Revolution which uses constant track power I don’t have the battery installed. It is for use with variable track voltage. The charger is internal to the sound board and the battery charges whenever the track voltage is high enough.

Yes, the volume switch is bump one way to increase and the other to decrease. Just holding it over does nothing, you have to keep pushing it. Don’t remember which way is which, it would change depending on how you mounted the switch anyway.

I have never lost the chuff on corners. My smallest curves are 5’ radius, 10’ diameter and it seems to be fine. The chuff tone does change as the engine travels around the railroad but I think this is more because of the changing scenery, IE along a rock wall as opposed to along a wood wall as opposed to in a cut, over an open trestle or over solid ground etc.

Overall I am happy with the system, easy to install, sounds great (to me) and so far has been 100% reliable.
I am going to put sound into my Bachmann Connie when I can afford it and will probably use the new PB8.

Randy, thanks for the plug but I’m no expert. I do have a tendency to study anything that interests me to death however. I never stop learning.

My dad always taught me, if you are going to do something, do it right. And if you are going to learn something then learn it good.

Richard, hope this is helpful.

Enjoy, Ron

#6

You aren’t kidding ,Randy…i’m already in Ron’s debt for these great pics…now i just hope i can return the favor some day :slight_smile:

#7

You’re The Man ,Ron :slight_smile:

looks like i’m not so far off as i thought ,when guessing what some of the parts do…

so it seems my biggest issues will be the things that must be modified on my tender…

pdf of the engine and tender http://www.lgbworld.com/service_manuals/22872-1.PDF

#1 …no built-in speaker grill…which i may ,or may not need to drill/cut…past experience has shown me i could get decent sound from inside a tender (using an lgb “black box” type sound unit) even though there were no grill slots in the tender floor…

#2 …plastic wheels ,so i think i’ll be getting my power from the wires that run to the auxillary plug at the rear of the tender…unless maybe a local guy has some lgb metal wheels with power pickups…hmmmmmmmmm…

will have to tinker some now ,then see where i end up…

thanks again…

#8

Hi Richard

I looked at your pdf and there are just a couple of thoughts come to mind.

  1. Could you not just mount the speaker in the loco in the spot already there? Of course this would depend on the speaker that comes with the PB9 being the right size.

  2. I would think that you would have to cut slots or drill holes for the sound to get out of the tender if you went that way. Enclosing the back side of the speaker would definitely make the sound better. As for the LGB black box idea I have absolutely no experience with that.

  3. I don’t recall if you said what you are using for power, but I would replace the plastic tender wheels with metal. If you use track power in any variant then the metal wheels help to keep the track clean.

Have fun and post pictures of the install and when you are done. That helps everyone else learn.

Ron

#9

Hi Again ,Ron…

#1 yes ,i could use the speaker mount in the belly of the engine ,but i’m kinda worried about opening the engine to do the install…i’ve had dad’s diesels open to work on them ,but this one scares me :slight_smile: but now that i think of it…the train has factory mts…

soooooooooo…i wonder…is it possible to go into the engine ,and tie the phoenix unit into the mts system???

we run analog 99.9% of the time ,on track power ,and definitely want the bell whistle and chuff to work without having to use the mts controller…

this really has me thinking now…mainly i worry that if i tie into the mts ,will i lose the bell and whistle when i don’t want to use the mts controller…

i think maybe i’ll try finding some new wheels for the tender…possibly even the type that will give me power for the sound unit…then go from there…

bell whistle and chuff really are the only reason i’m adding the unit…so if i can get that far ,i know i’ll be satisfied…

hopefully have some pics and/or vid soon…

#10

Hi Richard
I have no experience or knowledge of the mts system. My thought was that you could put the speaker in the engine and connect it to the Phoenix by a two pin plug. Would just be one less thing to fit into the tender. Then you could run the chuff off of magnets on the tender axle and a reed switch. Whistle and bell could also be run with reed switches and track magnets.
Yes, you could power the Phoenix from the metal tender wheels using wipers, but why not use the track pick ups that are already there for the loco and install the battery for the phoenix for when the track voltage is too low.
Alternately, maybe you could install the entire unit in the loco instead of the tender. I have never seen an LGB mikado so don’t know what you are up against. I’m just trying to think of the easiest way to accomplish what you want.
Sorry if I am confusing you
Ron

#11

No need to worry about confusing me ,Ron :slight_smile: i often think in 6 different directions ,all at the same time…

i understand your point of putting everything but the speaker into the tender…

but i’m also wondering if there is a way to put everything in the boiler ,if i’m going to open it for the speaker install…

and that makes me wonder if i can get chuff from the top of the rear motor block???

it seems this engine was produced with sound…then later produced without…i have the unit without factory sound…but i wonder if the connections for sound are in the motor blocks…and if they are ,then might the bell and whistle switches be there too…

obviously the pdf shows the unit with sound…

but it looks to me like the only wiring down near the blocks is 2 wires for power…and 2 plugs on top of the block…

this makes me think those 2 plugs on top might be chuff and bell/whistle…

so i wonder if they would make 2 different motor blocks (considering the fact that all the mikado’s had sound…even the white pass version) or is there maybe a chance that the block is wired for sound ,and just doesn’t have anything plugged into it :slight_smile: i know that is wishful thinking ,but i’ll have to look into it…

sure wish i could find a number for the motor block…then maybe i could find out what might be inside it…

#12

Hi Richard
If you could put everything in the boiler that would work as well. Otherwise you will need at least a 4 pin plug between the boiler and tender. Two wires for power and two for speaker.
I have never had an LGB power block so have no idea on the chuff thing, but it would seem to me highly unlikely that they would make two different blocks. From a manufacturing cost standpoint that would not be economical. It is more likely that they use the same block and just do not install the circuitry for sound in the loco.
Once you get the boiler off the chassis it would be worth comparing the wiring to the pdf that you have and see what similarities are there. If you put power to the block and allow the wheels to turn slowly and then put an ohmmeter across the other two terminals you should get an intermittent reading as the wheels turn. If this happens then that could be used as your trigger for the chuff.
Go ahead slowly and investigate thoroughly, you should be OK.
Best of luck
Ron

#13

Just as an example of what can be done, I installed batteries, radio and sound in one of those engines. I put the batteries in the tender. The radio, sound card and speaker in the engine. I tried the original LGB speaker with a Phoenix P-5 and the speaker was terrible. I used a 2: speaker and mounted it in a PVC pipe cap for an enclosure. I put this whole thing within the boiler.

As for sound sensors, I glued a Phoenix reed switch in each engine with 2 magnets on each axle. The results were most convincing.