Large Scale Central

Passing track: Prototype clearance

Track and Trestles
#1

I apologize in advance for the cross posting …

I’m looking for the spacing that any “modern” Narrow Gauge railroad would use between a passing siding and the main track, center to center. By “Modern” narrow gauge, I mean DRGW, ET, Carson and Colorado, White Pass and Yukon, EBT, or any other narrow gauge line that had large, modern locomotives and equipment to contend with, for whom the figures might still be available, including current practice on any of the surviving lines.

Standard gauge practice comes out to about 8 inches in 1:20.3 … which is workable. I’m just wondering if there’s a major difference for “modern” narrow gauge.

Matthew (OV)

#2

“Prototypical” doesn’t always get it in the hobby simply because we have sharper curves and bigger hands. I generally base my spacing on, 1. Can I get my fingers between the two cars side by side. In other words can I pick one car up without knocking the other off the tracks. 2. Can the two trains pass on a curve (if it’s doubled) without hitting each other. This is important because we have non prototypical overhangs caused by non prototypical sharp curves. This really shows up if you are running a large locomotive like the Alco DL535 or a K28. It also compounds itself if you will run prototypical length passenger cars vs the shorty cars like the old Bachmann or LGB. So, the best method is to test it with the biggest stuff you have. If it works, then it’s right…:confused:

#3

Your original question seemed to be on the passing siding track to track. This is where you can go prototype. (I’m assuming straight track)… I seem to keep finding 13 foot center to center for prototypes, although they vary, of course. This would 7.68" in 20.3 …

Of course, curves, being non-protypical need actual measuring of overhang and “underhang” (my term)… I measured all my longest cars and locos on my tightest curve and how much the overhang was on the outside, and how much the long cars “cut the corner” on the inside, my “underhang”. I then came up with the clearances from the center for curved track.

Regards, Greg

#4

Matthew -

EBT practice is probably not the norm for narrow gauge. All tracks that paralleled the main had enough clearance for two standard gauge cars (on NG trucks) to pass. There is video of exactly that happening on some of the common carrier era video I’ve seen. The cleareance is tight, but they pass :slight_smile:

JR

#5

Jon,

Remember that the EBT wasn’t planning on passing standard gauge cars when the railroad was built. On the other hand, the tracks were built to 1873 standard gauge clearances. The sidings are 12’ apart–enough to pass two standard gauge cars, but I sure wouldn’t want to be standing between them when they do. I’ll need to take a look to see if the dual-gauge track in Mt. Union was also built on 12’ centers, or if they increased it.

Later,

K

#6

I haven’t kept as good track of this thread as I should have. Thanks for all the answers …

I went with the EBT 12 feet because, well, it fit. I just prefer to have a prototype justification of some kind for most of the oddball stuff I do. Of course the “passing” track is so short you can’t pass much on it… but at least the station will have double ended sidings to pull into now, and some kind of meeting/waiting/sawby ops will be possible, even with passenger trains and their various restrictions.

I think maybe I should have built this layout in a gymnasium… then there MIGHT be enough room!

Matthew (OV)

#7

Matthew, the reality is even if you had a gymnasium you would want a bigger one…:smiley: That’s just the way it goes with model railroaders. :confused:

#8

Ah , but in your gymnasium , you would have the track down , everything in the gym would be lovely , then one day you unthinkingly buy a piece of rolling stock that’s a bit longer …

Which raises an interesting question . If a road vehicle carries an oversize load , traffic is made to allow for it (to put it tactfully) .
Is there ever an operating mode on rail whereby an oversize load has special dispensation and a preplanned clearance for just that event ?
I can think of one instance in Europe where a special wagon was made outside loading guage to transport a large electrical device up into a mountain , even into the large cavern that had been hollowed out to make a power station .
That was only for a few off , but the railway concerned was involved right from the outset and had total control over traffic being the sole operator .
Does that happen in the USA , or is it all done by road ?

Mike

ps Matthew , I am not trying to hijack your thread , I am just thinking ahead for you for when you build your power station .

pps I have just thought of another instance where the load straddled two tracks . Deutsche Bundesbahn , within the last five years or so .

#9
Mike Morgan said:
(to put it tactfully) . Is there ever an operating mode on rail whereby an oversize load has special dispensation and a preplanned clearance for just that event ?
Can't cite chapter and verse, but it certainly happens and has for many years -- probably since Trevithick. Heck, if I know about it in my cavern under the woodpile, someone here can surely point out instances.
#10

There have been incidents where there were special cars made and oversize loads carried on special trains. There have also been special trains to carry classified and dangerous objects. These generally move at night under special guard. One generally reads about them in such magazines like popular science…after the fact.

An example of an unusual load that requires special cars…and has to be routed for clearances is the Boeing aircraft cars. The main car has to be long enough to handle the full aircraft fuselage. Then there are the wing and tail cars that accompany it. They come through here on a regular basis and are usually the first cars behind the locomotive. Strange looking to say the least.

#11

This was sent to me awhile back, and I have no idea where it comes from or who took it, so if there’s a problem, down it comes… But for the moment, I think this may be an example of what Mike’s talking about… and it’s more than a one shot deal. Apparently these moves cause clearance and schedule issues every time they happen, and they happen on a regular basis. One of your PACNORWEST want to fill in the details?

Matthew (OV)

#12

This is what I was talking about in my post just above yours. These come through Spokane on their way to Seattle on a regular basis. As you will note in the picture they are always just behind the locomotive. The wings and tail are in the odd shaped cars ahead of the main body. Behind the aircraft will be a regular train. Probably several box cars will contain smaller aircraft parts heading to the Boeing factory.

A side note: The oncoming train appears to be an SD70 in Executive colors, so that would be an empty unit coal train heading back to Powder River. It’s hard to say where this picture was taken, but it looks to be on the Rathdrum Prairie just east of Spokane. Unfortunately there isn’t enough in the picture to confirm that.

#13

Crikey , some load . And regular too , given the sales of the Boeing .
I wonder if it needs special routeing and fits in to general traffic ? .

Mike

#14

As I understand it, the solid fuel booster rockets for the space shuttle are transported by rail to a port on the Gulf and then transfered to barges where they’re shipped to Merrit Island for off-loading. Haven’t seen any pictures of this, but I’ll bet it’s an interesting sight.

#15

Ken ,
I am always surprised when nobody seems to remark on abnormal load shifting . It seems to be taken for granted , but there is a heck of a lot of skill involved in the job , particularly by the usually ignored truck driver .
I suppose all that folks see is something slowing them down .
I watched a programme the other night about house moving as done in the USA and Canada , those drivers getting their wheels into the right spot on the right lock ready to move again , it makes fascinating watching .
The programme was one of a series made for TV , and we shall see the whole series over the next few weeks . It must have been on TV over there . Well worth a look .

On the subject of abnormal loads , can anyone help ? I have a photo somewhere , taken within the last five years and shown in a magazine . It shows a large transformer being moved by DB of Germany , the transporter is a many wheeled drop frame trailer and was moved over a distance on two main line tracks , so the front bogie was on one track and the rear on the parallel track . Anyone remember which mag or have a copy ? It looks most strange , and is worth seeing . I believe a video was made of the complete move , and I have been watching out for it to no avail . The whole move involved road , rail and barge .

Mike

#16

Yea, Mike, it’s amazing how clueless some drivers are when they encounter an “oversize” load on the highway. Every trip I make I usually come accross quite a few. I was passing a a rather large boat being trailored down I-75 in FL. one time and was half in the far left lane so the laod had plenty of room. One of those clueless woman SUV drivers was so busy yappin on her cell phone all she saw was me in her way and beepin her horn and waving her middle finger…good thing I have a sense of humor…:wink:

I encountered a few house movings when I worked for the phone company. We usually had to provide clearance for the load being moved. Quite an amazing site…

#17

We had a rather humorous incident occur during a house move a couple years ago. Seems the house came off the trailer…right in the middle of a bridge. Both lanes were blocked and the community was cut in half until they could get the house off to the side of the road. They were only allowed to move it to the end of the bridge and the house was left for quite some time along side the road…until it could be inspected and determined if it was still sound enough to move by highway…or demolished on the spot.

#18

What made it worse was every traffic report on the radio began with “Our house, in the middle of the street…” :slight_smile:

Later,

K

#19

Nice one , Kevin

Mike

#20
Quote:
[b]What made it worse was every traffic report on the radio began with "Our house, in the middle of the street..." :)[/b]
LOL!!

A few years ago a truck hauling a huge concrete thingamajig to be installed at the US Gypsum plant smacked into an overpass near us. They were heading south on I-15, and were supposed to stay on I-15. But their lead escort driver goofed and took the 163 instead, and the truck driver just followed along.

Speaking of interesting oversize loads, back in the 80’s the SD RR museum had a large loco moved from Imperial Valley to their site at Campo. The loco was hauled by truck on a special rig with 100 tires!