Large Scale Central

Passenger train operations....

Operations
#1

How many of you guys that operate, have delved into passenger train operations ?

If none do…why not ?

Those that do; how do you plan the operations, or is it always the same locomotive pulling the same cars back and forth or round and round…?

The real railroads did use the same equipment a lot of the time, but what about introducing, what were called “Pool Trains”…trains that included cars, from several railroads, “Pooled” to form one train between two points, to save equipment costs.

What about “Head end” cars…express reefers, RPO’s, and baggage cars…how do you handle them ?

Then of course on short lines and branch lines there were “Mixed Trains” which included a single coach or combine in a short freight train.

It would be great to see/hear thoughts on these operations.

#2

Fred,

I have an Amtrak train that runs south in the early morning, and north in the late morning… Currently, has one Genisis locomotive with an AMtrak boxcar behind it, (with remote reciever and battery). 2 Amtrak coaches, separated by an AMtrak Cafe car, and 3 AMtrak Road railers on the tail end… This train only stops at the mahor cities, Memphis & Bluefield…

Departing Bluefield will also be 3 RDC runs that do local stops…

One to Memphis and back.

One to Evansville and back.

One to Okawville and back.

RDC runs are an RDC3 and an RDC1.

There might be an occasional ““Railfan Extra”” once in a while.

#3

Someone who has been there needs to describe the passenger train ops done at the Finger Lakes group after the Invasion. I’ve heard bits and pieces, but not any detail.

All of my trains are Mixed Trains as we can carry passengers in the caboose. There are at least two mandatory passenger shelter stops on each train, plus a few flag stops. I haven’t worked out how to determine that a stop is needed at the flag stop, other than just a random decision to sop.

#4

Fred,

I’m looking into getting the Railboss4 Plus from G Scale Graphics. The RC system has programable station stops using track magnets. My plan is to have my heavyweights in commuter service running autonomously (stopping and starting at stations). Meanwhile I’ll be able to run the local frieghts and such in between. Even in commuter mode, I would still have radio control of it when needed.

#5

Finger Lakes Passenger Ops - Wow!

Help here guys.

Two major trains one east, one west. Drops cars at main station and leave with other cars. Lots of less priority trains dropping a car or a diner at the station yard and picking up what the major train left. Also milk trains get involved. All breaks apart, run as separates and then ends up puttin the major train back together to run in the opposite direction.

Last couple of years, sidings added each time away from main yard and within a next couple of years, freight service will probably be included.

I’ve contacted Roger C. to see if he wants to explain better.

#6

I have a roundy round layout. Actually a single track mainline with 2 reverse loops. I am also a train watcher, not so much an operations kinda guy. So my passenger trains just run. I have a PRR set, Aristo C16, Bachmann boxcar, Bachmann combine and 2 Bachmann coaches.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/david_maynard/general/2006_0611Image0017.jpg)

I also have my kitbashed Hartland Forney with a scratch-built combine and 2 scratch-built passenger cars

And then there is my dinner train. The consist has recently changed. I now have a diner, 2 coaches and an observation car.

And I have a Reading Bachmann Big Hauler 10 wheeler with a combine and 2 coaches.

The consists never change, and they just run back and fourth in my yard. But I enjoy watching them run, even if they don’t stop to pick up any passengers

#7

David , I really like your scratch built cars , they have an air of reality about them .

Now back to the operating question .

Mike Brit

#8

Since I’m just a one man operation, and the RGS was mainly a short line, there isn’t much in the way of a passenger car operation going on. I may include a coach in a freight consist just to make it different. If I do include a coach, I’ll block the cars behind it so the coach doesn’t get shunted around with the freight cars while it’s at the station, which can make it interesting. I do however, list the mail/baggage car, combine and drover’s caboose as a freight car and they may get set out or picked up at the LCL siding at the depot or the Interchange.

When I do run a passenger train, I’ll include a reefer in the consist and it’ll make a stop at the Creamery while the passenger train sits at the depot.

All my stations have “Train Order” boards on them set at “Red” for the train to stop there and get their orders so having a passenger car in the train doesn’t make it that unusual.

I haven’t really formalized a “mixed freight” in the Operations software, but it is something I’ve been thinking about.

#9

Roger sent me a synopsis of the Passenger Ops at Finger Lakes on the #1 Gauge track.

Here is a brief description of FLLS Gauge One Passenger Operations.

Because the FLLS Gauge One layout is somewhat limited in scope it did not seem to be a good choice for formal freight car operating sessions. As a result Roger Caiazza developed the infrastructure to host passenger operations. The key to that approach was to follow the intermediate station design in the first edition of John Armstrong’s book “Track Planning for Realistic Operation” for the main yard on the layout. He also picked up (back when they were relatively cheap) a bunch of Aristocraft heavyweight passenger cars , put together a set of head end express cars, and added some milk cars to my roster. Since then other members have added equipment so that they have at least 35 compatible passenger and head end cars available for operating sessions.

Once we had the infrastructure in place he set up an operating scenario based on prototypical operations. However, the problem with that approach is that the majority of the switching moves take place in the yard and for some trains there is little more to do than to just bring trains into the yard for switching. The most recent scenario was set up to at least give the operators some switching moves on the layout but, frankly, it is so small a layout that this still lead to a large differential between play value in the yard and out running trains. Furthermore, it is unlikely that there were any prototypical operations that included as much on line switching by passenger trains.

Roger wrote up a narrative of the first operating scenario that gives a flavor of what that operating session included. This passenger operating session focuses on a passenger station that is located at a junction point on a main line between three cities to the south and two cities to the north. Three trains with Pullman sleeping cars from each of the cities to the south arrive at the station and two trains head north with Pullman cars from each city while the third train out takes mail and L-C-L cars north out of the station. Because these three trains are all limited trains they do not stop on the railroad. The primary operations for these trains are switching moves at the station with a couple of switchers at the station.

Meanwhile two other trains operate southbound to add operating variety over the railroad. One of these trains is an express train that stops at all the stations on the railroad with a couple of switching moves for express cars. The other train is the milk pickup train that stops at stations to pick up milk cars and at flag stops to pick up milk cans.

These are the trains included in the session

Limited #1 – Northbound train with a consist of an RPO, combine, coach, diner and two Pullmans. Drops the diner, transfers the RPO to the Overnight Mail, and transfers a Pullman from the Crescent. Picks up a Pullman from the station and transfers a Pullman from the Overnight Mail and Crescent.

Crescent #3 - Northbound train with a consist of an RPO, combine, diner, two Pullmans, and an observation. Transfers the RPO to the Overnight Mail and transfers a Pullman to the Limited. Transfers a Pullman from the Limited and transfers a Pullman from the Overnight Mail.

Overnight Mail #11 – Northbound train with a consist of an express car, RPO, baggage, coach and two Pullmans. Drops the express car at the station, transfers a Pullman to the Limited and transfers a Pullman to the Crescent. Picks up a baggage from the station, transfers an RPO from the Limited and transfers an RPO from the Crescent.

Evening Express #14 – Southbound train with a consist of an RPO, baggage, combine and express car. At Marengo sets out a baggage and picks up a baggage and express car. At Worcester drops an express box car. At the inner loop station picks up an express box car. At the freight house drops an express box car.

Milk Pickup #22 – South bound train with a consist of a combine. Picks up milk cars at Marengo, Worcester, Inner Loop and Freight House stations.

#10

Thank you Ric and Roger.

#11

Most of the time it seems like there’s a lot more then that going on…:wink:

#12

I’ve only been there once, but it was rather hectic. It’s quite involved.

Here’s a shot showing part of the yard.

And looking in the other direction

Busy, busy, busy. But lots of fun.

#13

The LA&C RR runs a single daily passenger train with #4 a baldwin 2-8-0 doing the work. Being a shortline, Passenger traffic is low but steady so the train also does mail and a milk run along with fresh produce and fish from Lake Erie. The train normally consists of a reefer, combination car, passenger car and LCL freight caboose.

The train runs one way in the morning and then back in the evening six days a week. It has four scheduled stops, two at stations and two at industries and it also has two flag stops. Passenger traffic, mostly due to the fresh food, always has priority.

When #4 is down #1 a baldwin 0-6-0 takes the charge but has to leave the reefer behind due to weight issues. The reefer is then attached to the morning freight it’s schedule is rearranged accordingly giving it priority on the rails.

The RR also has a special use railbus if passenger traffic or special occasions warrants it.

Terry

#14

Ahhh… so you do pay attention to what I say Fred!!

Good discussion!

:wink:

#15

Passenger trains were/are/will be the main stay on RhB layout Grischun. Way back when I obtained the graphic time table for the Albula line as it was in 1969.

In my former life, on my former HOm layout that was carefully adapted to the layout. Operations were at 4:1 fast clock ratio.

True to form the same method -adaptation of the prototype - will apply in the garden. Since it is a point to point railway it is easier to explain with a schematic of what happens at the end points. Blow by blow schematic to follow later, suffice to say mail cars and diners are added and removed, interchange cars show up going in either direction etc. etc. Just like the 1:1 back in '69.

#16

While the TRR offers passenger service, it’s seldom part of an “operating session.” The timetable for the passenger trains is such that they run in the morning and late afternoon, leaving the mid day time period open for the freight trains to come in and do their thing. (There are no passing sidings for two trains to meet along the route modeled.)

When the passenger service is part of the scheme, it’s usually handled by a very short train, typically a combine and coach, maybe a “market car” or baggage/express for farm produce in the summer months. It makes its morning run, then clears the line for the freight to do its thing.

On my dad’s Woodland Railway, passenger trains are occasionally worked into the operational scheme when there’s an engineer for the train. This past August, my son Andy spent his time at the throttle of the day’s run. The yards on dad’s railroad are off the mainline, and there are ample passing sidings for meets, making it much easier to accommodate passenger trains.

We’ve also–on occasion-- just set a doodlebug loose on the railroad to run up and down the line by itself, with the instructions to other train crews, “stay out of its way.” Fortunately it had sound, so you knew when it was getting close.

Later,

K

#17

Kevin said - “We’ve also–on occasion-- just set a doodlebug loose on the railroad to run up and down the line by itself, with the instructions to other train crews, “stay out of its way.” Fortunately it had sound, so you knew when it was getting close.”

Now that’s a kick, I think most of the railroads I’ve operated on would really struggle with a “rogue runner” that had right of way. My MOW tack inspection hand car has had the guys on workman’s comp more than working, because of trains just rammin’ thru. And that wasn’t even formal ops.

We’ll have to think about this some more.

#18

Fr. Fred,

My dear little O&NF RR is a shortlime (theoretically bridging Class 1’s in Virginia and Southern Pennsylvania) in the 1950 - 1970 era running through the Shenandoah Valley. Most trains, usually hauled by RS3’s or a ten wheelers are freight. There is often a way freight with an older J&S passenger car in the consist. To cater for afficionados and when there is a big event along the line, a passenger train - 4 four J&S type cars - are run always hauled by a ten wheeler which which form part of the railroads heritage fleet. The boss is a rail nut by the way. Wink

#19

Yes, Ric; it is that time of year, when hopes for the sight of Spring are almost appearing.

Thoughts about operations do start early, as they don’t require being outside in the cold, and can take place over a beverage with friends, or while taking a rest after clearing snow.

Of course, as you will joyfully point out; snow is not in your plans, now that you are retired !!

The idea of head end equipment forcing more action into passenger train operations, opens the door to several comments.

First; using a reefer as a battery car doesn’t lend itself to dropping/picking up that car. And what should the cars on the head end be ?

Depending on the type of railroad, and its equipment; usually any box cars, or reefers on the head end, would have been equipped with steam lines, in order to serve the rest of the train with steam for heat etc. They would often be dedicated cars for passenger train service, quite often with high speed trucks.

So; who produces “Express reefers”, or express box cars, in LS ?

If in doubt, you can develop your own, rather easily.

In NG, you can easily re-truck a B’mann or LGB reefer with passenger trucks from those two manufacturers. Using the truck mounted couplers may make them look rather odd, but body mounting Kadee #1 couplers is rather easy. Lettering can also be added to indicate, their service, or dedication.

I haven’t tried to re-truck any SG rolling stock, but by simply removing traces of truss rods on the NG reefers after re-trucking, can provide a car that doesn’t look too bad with the 1:29 passenger cars, albeit, a shade short in length if you are very picky.

Now some will point out that few if any NG operations on prototype roads, ever had any true express reefers. Ok…that’s another reason to NOT model a prototype road, instead model a NG “What-if” road of your own imagination !!

Another often forgotten head end car that would be of more use to the “Battery car fans” would be a steam generator car, for the SG passenger trains. It would never be dropped at a station, and would usually stay with the locomotives at most times. It would also need servicing at the same time as the locomotives (Fuel and water)…oh and don’t forget the passenger cars need water on occasion too.

A steam generator car could possibly be bashed out of an old Lionel plug door box car or reefer, and re-trucked with such trucks as the B’mann or LGB passenger trucks. There would be a bit of rebuilding of the body of the car, replacing the large doors with a single small door, and a few round widows. several tanks and boxes would be needed under the car for fuel, water and batteries. The rest of the changes would be on the roof and ends…Plastic (Styrene) is rather easy to work with, if you haven’t yet wet your feet with it…!!

…of course a Steam generator car would only apply to the age of service just after steam locomotives, in SG. Also note, that some of the “Passenger” Diesel locomotives on the market don’t have the steam generator detail, required for passenger service…so, a Steam Generator car is most needed, if you at all care to try to make your passenger equipment look correct.

There is more to passenger operation than just running in a circle, if you care to look more deeply at it.

#20

Fred and All,

Using the Craig Leigh Station as an example and a steam generator/battery car attached to the engine, couldn’t you disconnect the passenger coaches, pull over to the post office to do head end work and then go back to pick up your train? I know Craig Leigh is at the end of the layout and a destination, but couldn’t it be used as an out and back turn location from another part of the IPP&WRR.

For those that don’t know the layout of the IPP&WRR, I’m just saying that a battery car can stay with an engine and be used for LCL (Less than Car Loads) or, like Fred said, a steam generator car and taken to the water spicket for a drink or engine yard for service.

Operations is not just dropping off and picking up cars. Its schedules and meets and priorities of trains and, though some people don’t like it, sitting in the hole waiting for the passenger train to scream by on a schedule over the lonely local trying to get the job done.