Large Scale Central

Our New Shay: The Rest Of The Story

A couple of years ago, I decided to “gift” my Wrightwood property (here in Southern California’s San Bernardino Mountains) over to my son and daughter-in-law. My grandfather built it in 1924-1925. Just a couple of years after WWII, he purchased the vacant property next door. The lot is full of big Douglas fir trees and some Canary Island pines. But it’s ideal for a small lumber railroad in 1-1/2 scale.

There is even a small creek/stream to the right of this photo. Perfect for a small trestle.

So while I was visiting my kids here last November, my son and I started discussing getting a smallish, three truck, 3-cylinder Shay and start laying track in this 5000+ sq ft lot. It definitely has a good slope from the back of the property down to the road (in the foreground in the lot photo). We were guessing there was probably a 5-6 foot drop from back to front. Definitely Shay Country! Allen Models of Nevada (Steve Alley-owner) now has two 3-cyl. Shays in “kit-form”. One is a two-truck, 3-cyl. which is only 56 inches long and weighs 310 pounds. The second Shay is also a 3-cyl., but it’s also 3-trucks. Much larger and heavier at 84 inches long and 400 pounds. I ordered the prints for both engines and started to research what this thing would cost to build and how long it would take to finish. i’m 78 now, so time is an “issue”. I’ve already built one 1-1/2 inch scale steam engine and that was the Allen ten-wheeler. I sold it a few years ago to a young corporate jet pilot. He now has it finished and running on steam. So I know how these engines can take some time to build. But a Shay is a more simple engine to build and no side rods to quarter! I put a bid out for quotes on a new boiler to a few folks I know that are STILL building boilers in this scale. After a few months of adding up boiler costs, plumbing fixtures for the cab and cost of hundreds of rough castings and machining (I have a complete machine shop, that wasn’t an issue), I could see this simple little shay was going to be about $12K-$20K and take me another 5-6 years of my life. My wife commented that if I wanted to still build another big engine, why didn’t I just keep the ten-wheeler and finish that one. Good point!

I got to talking to my Glendale College retired professor (taught Machine Technology) and he said he had a 1-1/2 scale Kozo Hiroaka 3-truck, 3-cyl. Shay out in his barn! He said he would give it to me to finish. The only things it needed to steam was a boiler and the plumbing on the engine and cab. So last April, he comes down from Markleeville with this Kozo Shay.

This engine was a Glendale College Machine Technology project for students who were apprentices in the aircraft industry at Lockheed in Burbank. As part of their apprenticeships, they attended the college for the classroom work. This was over forty years ago! This photo shows one of the students overseeing the display of the engine at a college Open House. As you can see, the engines are complete and the Shay was running on air.Other photos below of the delivery to my home in Burbank.

Footlocker with all the machined parts (all three engines and valve gear, 3 engine manifold for the smoke box to feed steam to the engines and thousands of little parts to inventory and reassemble to get the engine running again.

I spent quite a bit of time in April of this year going through every part and checking this to the book that Kozo wrote in the mid-seventies on how to build this engine. Buying a boiler for this engine was going to cost in the $5K-$6K range because these are difficult boilers to build. Shay boilers are more like teapots that the straight boilers you usually find on “rodded” steam engines. I figured that I had quite a bit of work just to tear down the engine as it was and then actually rebuild from scratch all over again. I might even have to make some parts that were never machined at the school or were missing from the inventory just because so much time had gone by. Bottom line on this, one of the guys in our Baldwin electric project was interested in this Shay because he has a nice 7-1/2 inch gauge around his home here in So. Cal. and he has the funds to have someone complete this engine for him. There are many folks here who do this as a business. So the engine was sold in May and the rebuilding as already started and the boiler is being made at this moment.

But still, my son and I didn’t didn’t have our Shay to run at the home in the mountains. My son decided that a Ga. 1, 45mm track was actually more feasible for the property. I said I would look for a Accucraft Shay and try to find a BRAND NEW one! Boy, did I make a mistake…I emailed and called every Accucraft dealer in the U.S. and Europe. Nobody had any used Shays, let alone a new one. The last name in my contacts list was Bob Weltyk in Michigan (Weltyk’s Whistles). I had hosted a little steam-up for him at LALS’s 45mm club track when he came out to visit in 2016. I sent Bob an email and he actually called me about an hour later!. He asked me which Shay I wanted. I had no idea which one to get. He already has two or three Accucraft Shays and an Aster Shay. He said the best one by far was the little two-cal, 2-truck Mich-Cal #2. I said that is the one I want then. Bob said that he would make a call and get back to me with the availability and price of a Mech-Cal Shay #2. He calls back in 15 minutes and says he can get the Shay and he named the price (which was very fair. Bob told me who to call and his phone number. The man I called is well known in the steam hobby (most of you steam guys probably know who it is). I made the deal for a brand new Accucraft Mich-Cal #2 Shay. Still in the original box shipped in April 2010!! Never been opened. AND I even had the choice of the lowest serial number of those he had in inventory (#22).

The Shay was delivered to my son’s front door in Wrightwood on May 21st. On display now in the cabin. The cabin is being remodeled now (started on July 1st). So all the trains, including this little beauty, are in an AirBnb just down the street. The cabin should be completed in late September and at that time, we are supposed to have a FaceTime call from the man who sold us this engine and made this deal possible and he will walk us through our first steam-up with this engine. :slight_smile:

will walk us through our first steam-up with this engine

Gary, a great tale, and I’m glad to hear you didn’t embark on a 5-6 year project. You know it would have taken 10-12 yrs!

The 2-cylinder Shays are great little engines and run like a watch. However, they have a large burner and the smokebox gets very hot. The trucks are not brass and can disintegrate, and the wheels are insulated at the rims and the epoxy can melt if it all gets too hot. The answer is to fit a brass plate under the smokebox over the truck as a heat shield. There’s a crosspiece you can drill to bolt it to or tap for a bolt.

https://www.mylargescale.com/threads/accucraft-2-cylinder-shay-q.90772/

Pete Thornton said:

will walk us through our first steam-up with this engine

Gary, a great tale, and I’m glad to hear you didn’t embark on a 5-6 year project. You know it would have taken 10-12 yrs!

The 2-cylinder Shays are great little engines and run like a watch. However, they have a large burner and the smokebox gets very hot. The trucks are not brass and can disintegrate, and the wheels are insulated at the rims and the epoxy can melt if it all gets too hot. The answer is to fit a brass plate under the smokebox over the truck as a heat shield. There’s a crosspiece you can drill to bolt it to or tap for a bolt.

https://www.mylargescale.com/threads/accucraft-2-cylinder-shay-q.90772/

Pete,

Thanks for the tip about the brass plate as a heat shield. :slight_smile:

In talking with Royce about getting this engine and the first stamp we will be having in late September, he recommended about 2-4 short stamps to break-in the engine properly. He told me it as piston valves (Viton rings) and because the engine has been packed away for over 11 years, we should stamp slowly to break them in before starting to pull rolling stock. Only use rollers for the first few tries.

Royce sent his custom mix steam oil and other steaming accessories as a bonus in a separate package. Great man to deal with:).

Rick Marty, my Good Buddy in Oregon, donated three sets of LGB dis-connects for the little Shay to pull. I ordered new Sierra Valley SVE3 wheel sets for these trucks to improve the roll characteristics.

Yeah, those LGB disconnects are very nice models of archbar trucks with additions. They came 3 pairs to a box - I got the 6 for about $75 once - a long time ago.

Very cool Gary. I think you will enjoy this little engine.

I have the “wood burning” version that also came from Royce when they were in production. I was never clued-in on break-in procedures and it had a pretty serious hitch in it’s giddy-up when I first ran it. Accucraft had me send it to a servicing dealer (another well known name in the live steam world that I just don’t remember. Dave Hotman maybe?) It ran better when I got it back, but I’d never describe mine as a Swiss watch (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

@Pete - How come I never heard of that heat shield idea!!! Mine doesn’t have a lot of hours on it but I do know the smoke box gets pretty hot. It will smolder a small chip of coal I throw in for smell. I probably have one of the few wood burning locos that smells like a coal burner when they go by! It’s so hot that I can’t keep a brass number plate to stay glued (JB-Weld Hi-Temp) to the original number plate. I suppose I need to look into that shield mod.

That’s awesome and I don’t even like steam! Jealous I’m not your son or maybe I would like steam!

Actually I lied!

I have had a nut for the Kalbach 2cyl narrow gauge shay for awhile as it was inter connected with the CVRR back in the day.

https://www.dcnr.pa.gov/StateParks/FindAPark/CowansGapStatePark/Pages/History.aspx

Scroll down to Industrial Times ^^^^^^

Driven the route a few times and they had some serious balls back in the day!

SORRY for Jacking up your thread but dang you hit a fetish (rubbing hands together)

Rooster said:

That’s awesome and I don’t even like steam! Jealous I’m not your son or maybe I would like steam!

He earned this Shay with a 16 month combat tour in Iraq in 2004-2005 as a Combat Medic :). 1st CAV DIV

Jon Radder said:

Very cool Gary. I think you will enjoy this little engine.

I have the “wood burning” version that also came from Royce when they were in production. I was never clued-in on break-in procedures and it had a pretty serious hitch in it’s giddy-up when I first ran it. Accucraft had me send it to a servicing dealer (another well known name in the live steam world that I just don’t remember. Dave Hotman maybe?) It ran better when I got it back, but I’d never describe mine as a Swiss watch (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

@Pete - How come I never heard of that heat shield idea!!! Mine doesn’t have a lot of hours on it but I do know the smoke box gets pretty hot. It will smolder a small chip of coal I throw in for smell. I probably have one of the few wood burning locos that smells like a coal burner when they go by! It’s so hot that I can’t keep a brass number plate to stay glued (JB-Weld Hi-Temp) to the original number plate. I suppose I need to look into that shield mod.

THIS is exactly why Royce offered to do a few FaceTime sessions with us and walk us through the stamp and break-in :). My son has NO experience with steam. I have quite a few years of running large scale 1-1/2 inch locomotives: 3-3/4 inch NG Porter with coal and propane, 1-1/2 inch ten-wheeler on coal, 1-1/2 inch Mogul on coal and a 1-1/2 inch Little Engines Pacific on oil. With Royce’s help, we should be good. :slight_smile:

Jon Radder said:

Very cool Gary. I think you will enjoy this little engine.

I have the “wood burning” version that also came from Royce when they were in production. I was never clued-in on break-in procedures and it had a pretty serious hitch in it’s giddy-up when I first ran it. Accucraft had me send it to a servicing dealer (another well known name in the live steam world that I just don’t remember. Dave Hotman maybe?) It ran better when I got it back, but I’d never describe mine as a Swiss watch (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

@Pete - How come I never heard of that heat shield idea!!! Mine doesn’t have a lot of hours on it but I do know the smoke box gets pretty hot. It will smolder a small chip of coal I throw in for smell. I probably have one of the few wood burning locos that smells like a coal burner when they go by! It’s so hot that I can’t keep a brass number plate to stay glued (JB-Weld Hi-Temp) to the original number plate. I suppose I need to look into that shield mod.

THIS is exactly why Royce offered to do a few FaceTime sessions with us and walk us through the steamup and break-in :). My son has NO experience with steam. I have quite a few years of running large scale 1-1/2 inch locomotives: 3-3/4 inch NG Porter with coal and propane, 1-1/2 inch ten-wheeler on coal, 1-1/2 inch Mogul on coal and a 1-1/2 inch Little Engines Pacific on oil. I also have experience in timing both Walschaerts and Stephanson valve gear (which is why you had a hitch in your giddy-up :slight_smile: ) With Royce’s help, we should be good. :slight_smile:

Gary, awesome story!

Very nice indeed.

I suppose I need to look into that shield mod.

I would strongly advise it. It isn’t difficult, and you don’t have to take the truck off, but it helps. Here’s a little eye candy: not one, but 2 at once. Mine is in front, and has a Chuffer (!). Jerry’s Shay and train behind.

P.S.

that also came from Royce

I didn’t think he was still in business.

Pete Thornton said:

I suppose I need to look into that shield mod.

I would strongly advise it. It isn’t difficult, and you don’t have to take the truck off, but it helps. Here’s a little eye candy: not one, but 2 at once. Mine is in front, and has a Chuffer (!). Jerry’s Shay and train behind.

P.S.

that also came from Royce

I didn’t think he was still in business.

I’m going to “wait and see” on our Mich Cal #2 until I have a chance to steam it up for the first time. I’m also going to do a couple of “break-in” stamps on rollers (per Royce’s instructions) and then actually do a couple of short runs as a break-in runs (also per Royce’s instructions).Extreme heat build up in the smoke box could be caused by several things. Individual firing techniques. Pete, you are very experienced with these smaller steam engines and I am definitely taking your suggestion about the shield seriously :)! I think I can get measurements for the size of the shield and make one in my shop. Then take it up to the cabin and install it. Royce said the trucks are brazed/silver soldered brass components and he said they “could” be damaged by extreme heat. Thanks for the suggestion/warning.

Gary,

I have had the pleasure of running an open cab version of this loco since they first were released and it is a pleasure. I have heard of the truck melting concern but even with a smaller id stack made for me by Torry Krutzke and a Summerlands chuffer installed I have never had a problem. It is absolutely mandatory (even if you add the heat shield) that the flame pops back into the boiler tube vs burning in the smoke box. I always light mine with the door open and it is easy to tell by visual and sound cues that the flame is in the proper location. You will be surprised at how well this loco runs at a very low burner setting, the safety valve rarely lifting.

Bob Weltyk recently posted a video of it running on his track on Mylargescale.com live steam forum under Michigan Backyard Live Steamers 2021. I have done a lot of personalization over the years and it is always a hit at the train shows at which I run. I hope you and your son enjoy this loco as much as I have.

Best, Tom

are very experienced with these smaller steam engines and I am definitely taking your suggestion about the shield seriously :)! I think I can get measurements for the size of the shield and make one in my shop. Then take it up to the cabin and install it.

Gary,

I it was Ryan at Triple R who gave me the scoop. My pal had his wheel rims loosen and Ryan fixed it. Ryan also mentioned the burner is bigger than is needed, and you’ll note Tom B’s comment that his runs nicely on a low setting. Fitting the heat shield is an easy fix so I wouldn’t wait.

Royce said the trucks are brazed/silver soldered brass components

Well, Royce may be thinking of some other Shay, as general opinion is that they are not brass. Take a look at this thread - about fitting plastic trucks!

https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/2-or-3-cylinder-shays.315815/

Accucraft has them on their website again, marked “pre-order”
AP26-100S Single Truck - 1:20.3 Shay, Live Steam (1) SKU: AP26-100S $200.00

Pete, I have my Shay apart for some cab repairs so I think I’ll add the heat shield just in case. The crews of yours and Jerry’s shays in the video must be ending their shift and in a hurry to get back to the barn. Speed demons! (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)Tom

I think I’ll add the heat shield just in case.

Wise move. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Accucraft has them on their website again, marked “pre-order”
AP26-100S Single Truck - 1:20.3 Shay, Live Steam (1) SKU: AP26-100S $200.00

I did some research and Triple R Services indicate that they are indeed brass, but from the latest 3-cylinder Shays. In theory you could buy a pair and fit them after your pot-metal trucks disintegrate, but it is not known whether the driveshafts and couplings would be identical.

The crews of yours and Jerry’s shays in the video must be ending their shift and in a hurry to get back to the barn. Speed demons!

Yeah. Ryan commented that the new trucks are a lower ratio, so the newer locos runs slower.

You can’t hear it on the video, but my ‘chuffer’ is audible if the burner is quiet, and with 8 or more chuffs per revolution of those small wheels it does sound interesting!