Large Scale Central

OT-NT The cost of outfitting GI Joe "spirals."

I found this surfing this afternoon.

Having been a “Leg” for 8 or 9 years, I think this is money well invested. I will make no other comment.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.

Costs of Outfitting Soldiers Spirals Up
By PAULINE JELINEK (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
October 02, 2007 2:59 PM EDT

WASHINGTON - As official Washington argues over the spiraling price of the war in Iraq, consider this: Outfitting a soldier for battle costs a hundred times more now than it did in World War II. It was $170 then, is about $17,500 now and could be an estimated $28,000 to $60,000 by the middle of the next decade.

“The ground soldier was perceived to be a relatively inexpensive instrument of war” in the past, said Brig. Gen. Mark Brown, head of the Army agency for developing and fielding soldier equipment.

Now, the Pentagon spends tens of billions of dollars annually to protect troops and make them more lethal on the battlefield.

In the 1940s, a GI went to war with little more than a uniform, weapon, helmet, bedroll and canteen. He carried some 35 pounds of gear that cost $170 in 2006 inflation-adjusted dollars, according to Army figures.

That rose to about $1,100 by the 1970s as the military added a flak vest, new weapons and other equipment during the Vietnam War.

Today, troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are outfitted with advanced armor and other protection, including high-tech vests, anti-ballistic eyewear, earplugs and fire-retardant gloves. Night-vision eyewear, thermal weapons sights and other gear makes them more deadly to the adversary.

In all, soldiers today each are packing more than 80 items - weighing about 75 pounds - from socks to disposable handcuffs to a strap cutter for slashing open a seatbelt if they have to flee a burning vehicle.

Several items were added since 2002, when troops in Afghanistan complained that their equipment was outdated and not best suited to the new campaign.

Still, newer gear is just around the corner.

Between 2012 and 2014, officials want troops to have head-to-toe protection, a weapon that can shoot around corners so soldiers don’t have to expose themselves to their enemy and a helmet-mounted 1.5-inch computer screen showing maps of the battlefield.

Drawings of the gear - some parts already in prototype and in the field - look like futuristic “Master Chief,” the human uber-soldier who battles aliens in the popular sci-fi video game Halo. Researchers prefer to call it “the F-16-on-legs concept,” a nod to U.S. fighter jets.

The wide range in price - an estimated $28,000 to $60,000 a person - is partly because not all troops will have all of the equipment. Some of it, such as a planning tool, is only for unit leaders.

The ensemble makes the soldier a highly protected “walking computer hub” who can send out and take in information such as maps showing where all friendly and enemy forces are arrayed, said Dutch DeGay, equipment specialist at the Army’s research and development center in Natick, Mass.

“Your tax dollars at work,” he said.

Indeed, spending on ever improving and ever more costly technology to make troops safer and more effective could be seen as just what taxpayers wanted.

It reflects an American society that values human life and has a distaste for too many casualties, said Dakota Wood, a retired Marine now with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

The increases also coincided with the development of the all-volunteer military that Americans greatly prefer over conscription. The end of the draft in the 1970s has meant fewer people in the armed forces, and those fewer people need better equipment to do more.

The military also must protect troops because of the higher investment made to recruit and train a professional force, said P.J. Crowley, a 26-year veteran of the Air Force now with the Center for American Progress.

It doesn’t help attract recruits if the military uses soldiers “as cannon fodder,” Wood said.

Over the years more spending has meant a better chance of survival. Today, for every eight soldiers wounded, roughly one dies, compared with one for every 2.4 wounded in World War II and one for every three in Vietnam, the Army says. The better odds also are due to better medical treatment and other advances.

Still, troops remain vulnerable and success is far from guaranteed.

Homemade insurgent bombs are the No. 1 killer of Americans in Iraq and a weapon being used increasingly in Afghanistan as well. Insurgents have been known to detonate the explosives with cell phones, washing machine timers and remote controls from toy cars.

“As we know in Iraq, a high-tech military can be vulnerable to a low-tech adversary,” Crowley said.

Of the $190 billion the Pentagon has requested for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in fiscal year 2008, the biggest expenses are about $77 billion for operations, about $47 billion to repair and replace destroyed equipment and more than $30 billion for “force protection.”

More than half of the protection funds are to send 15,000 mine-resistant vehicles to Iraq - at $1 million each. The rest is for protection gear as well as activities, such as destroying weapons caches scattered around Iraq by the thousands, funding an advisory group to study and recommend ways to defeat homemade bombs and operating unmanned aircraft systems that do border surveillance, help protect convoys and provide other support to troops.


On the Net:

Army research center http://www.natick.army.mil

I don’t believe I could ever argue the value of the life of even one of our U. S. military personnel. I expect our military commanders to use the money wisely and yet through my years I saw a lot of waste. Protection of the home front costs a lot of money and all the health care in the world for kids here illegally or of illegal parents comes far below second to protecting those that protect us. When Congress becomes responsible with the money they spend on “stuff”, I’ll ask them to look closer at military spending. Please don’t sit up waiting for that request.

And, of course, then we have our legal system and the age old question, “Do you know what you call a bad lawyer?”

Answer = Your Honor.

hehehe ain’t THAT the truth!

ANdre’

Sheesh, they put all that hightech crap on a soldier, after watch, they’re gonna risk finding him up on concrete blocks, stripped to his skivies :smiley:

If the cost gets too high, they’ll just make up an army of robots. Let them duke it out.
TOG

If they really want to save lives, then don’t send our young men to war in places we have no business being in the first place.

Warren,

To very friendly disagree - WE WERE ATTACKED!!!

I know some feel this has nothing to do with 9/11/01.

What is the argument? If we don’t attack the crazies, they won’t want to kill us? People have declared war on us. The argument that if we don’t attack the crazies, through negotiations, maybe the crazies won’t kill as many of us, is not good enough.

Go anyplace on the Earth that we can find the scum and kill the crazies there, so we don’t have to fight them on US soil. My family and friends are safer because of US soldiers fighting in foreign lands. If we brought all of our soldiers home, there are still people that want us dead, because of our freedoms, our desires to talk about trains or anything we want to instead of bowing to some created moolah or whatever.

Believe what you wish and state it freely without fear of retaliation because a US fighting man is putting his life on the line, so you have the right to do it.

Iraq never attacked us. Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction. The Iraqi government had no dealings with Al Queda. The invasion of Iraq detracted from the real goal of putting an end to Al Queda and Osama bin Laden. The invasion of Iraq detracted from getting Afghanistan stabilized. The invasion of Iraq detracted us from settling the Mid East problem with the Palistinians and Israel. The invasion of Iraq worsened our stand with Syria and Iran thus destabilizing that area of the world. The invasion of Iraq has killed thousands of our finest young men and women. The invasion of Iraq has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians.

I thought that would get your blood working this morning. Believe what you want Warren.

"Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction. "

The whole world thought they did and their leader kept expressing that he did. Even the pervert believed it. The world is a safer place today, especially in Carlyle, Illinois. No attacks here, since 9/11.

"The invasion of Iraq worsened our stand with Syria and Iran thus destabilizing that area of the world. "

What relationship with Iran and Syria? That they hadn’t taken US Citizens hostage in a while, so they must be nice people. Heck, I can’t figure out why the port of Yimin or Yiminny or whatever it was still exists after the bombing of the USS Cole.

The locals can take care of their problems or we will protect our interest. Terrorists should be hunted down across any border and eliminated. If a threat is made that someone wants to kill Christians and Jews and destroy the United States, I don’t agree with the negotiation tactic that if we are nice to them they won’t kill as many of us. Civilians aren’t innocent if they are harboring terrorist and not fighting to get them out of their country.

“The invasion of Iraq detracted us from settling the Mid East problem with the Palistinians and Israel.”

Now really do you think anything we do will change the thousands of years of fighting between some Muslims and the rest of the World. Wow, Mr. Rogers is alive and well.

"The invasion of Iraq has killed thousands of our finest young men and women. "

Yes, and I grieve over each one of them. I feel most of them were lost because of politicians not letting our military resolve this problem. Until certain political powers understand that the World is not a nice place our military must go in harms way with part of our government fighting against them instead of for them. Descent is and has always been part of the US Government, but current politics sometimes does not reflect the threats against us. Drink your kool aid and keep the positive thinking going that everyone is really a nice person inside and mean us no harm. I’ll think otherwise.

We are not going to agree on this and in this country we can both express our opinions and even be friends and enjoy trains. I wonder if the sand critters have problems with their camels stepping on their track. I never hear from them on the internet about that problem. Wonder why?

The invasion of Iraq had to to with nothing but black gold.
That is the reason that will wash out after it’s over and done.
I don’t give a rip what GeeDubbya says otherwise.
TOG

DING! Lets not go there…

Is Oktoberfest avalible in The Iraq? Can Ms South Carolina deliver it to me? Anyone anyone?

It looks like West Virginia got left off the distribution list. Too much white lightning competition, no doubt.

Plenty here in Virginia in bottles, but the tap is always dry whenever I go out to eat. Good stuff.

See, Steve.
You started all this and got me my first “Ding”.
TOG

Welcome to the real world John.

Ric, one point I do agree with you on. We may have different views politically, but that should never come between us and our trains…:slight_smile:

Warren and All,

Trains are the important topic here and other discussions should not come between people talking about important things like this.

Gees, guys, this is not about politics, this is about protecting the GI.

Sorry I mentioned it. I did not think this would be so controversial.

Toot, toot! All aboard for West Hempstead, Eastbrook and North Regalhaven.

Steve, if the government has their fingers in it, it’s going to get controversial real quick…:frowning:

Ric Golding said:
I thought that would get your blood working this morning. Believe what you want Warren.

"Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction. "

The whole world thought they did and their leader kept expressing that he did. Even the pervert believed it. The world is a safer place today, especially in Carlyle, Illinois. No attacks here, since 9/11.

"The invasion of Iraq worsened our stand with Syria and Iran thus destabilizing that area of the world. "

What relationship with Iran and Syria? That they hadn’t taken US Citizens hostage in a while, so they must be nice people. Heck, I can’t figure out why the port of Yimin or Yiminny or whatever it was still exists after the bombing of the USS Cole.

The locals can take care of their problems or we will protect our interest. Terrorists should be hunted down across any border and eliminated. If a threat is made that someone wants to kill Christians and Jews and destroy the United States, I don’t agree with the negotiation tactic that if we are nice to them they won’t kill as many of us. Civilians aren’t innocent if they are harboring terrorist and not fighting to get them out of their country.

“The invasion of Iraq detracted us from settling the Mid East problem with the Palistinians and Israel.”

Now really do you think anything we do will change the thousands of years of fighting between some Muslims and the rest of the World. Wow, Mr. Rogers is alive and well.

"The invasion of Iraq has killed thousands of our finest young men and women. "

Yes, and I grieve over each one of them. I feel most of them were lost because of politicians not letting our military resolve this problem. Until certain political powers understand that the World is not a nice place our military must go in harms way with part of our government fighting against them instead of for them. Descent is and has always been part of the US Government, but current politics sometimes does not reflect the threats against us. Drink your kool aid and keep the positive thinking going that everyone is really a nice person inside and mean us no harm. I’ll think otherwise.

We are not going to agree on this and in this country we can both express our opinions and even be friends and enjoy trains. I wonder if the sand critters have problems with their camels stepping on their track. I never hear from them on the internet about that problem. Wonder why?


Rick,

A recommendation: read “The mess they made” Gwynne Dyer ISBN 978-0-7710-2980-6

I finished that two weeks ago, details still pop into my mind everytime there’s another report out of Iraq.

There are great reports coming out of Syria and Iran.