Large Scale Central

OT - B-17G Visits Connecticut

General Discussion
#1

Had a real treat today. Took a short road trip to the Oxford Airport to witness several take-offs and landings of the EAA’s B-17G Aluminum Overcast. This is my first EAA event, I’ve seen the Collings Foundation’s Nine-O-Nine several times. I was pleasantly surprised at the nearly unlimited access at this event. Spectators were allowed out on the tarmac just off the taxi-way to watch take-offs and landings. When the aircraft came in to it’s parking area we were allowed within 200 feet. It was quite amazing to be that close to this monster while under power. The were offering half hour flights. I had to pass as I couldn’t scrape up the $350.00 to fly. Those that did said they would pay three times that to do it again. I took over 400 pictures. This is my top 12…

For more info on the EAA and Aluminum Overcast visit http://www.b17.org/

#2

Great shots Jon. Shame you couldn’t take the flight

#3

Jon, beautiful shots of a beautiful Lady… :slight_smile: thanks for sharing…

#4

I am always amazed at how much difference there is between real life war machines and the movies , the WW2 subs were really really small , compared to like in the movies where theres like a meeting room full of people . There was a B-17 here some years ago , and for a small fee , you could go thru it on the ground . Well haveing worked for years with Nelson K , a side door gunner on a B-17 who was shot down over Germany , I had to see it . Its so small really , I know it was large and the latest in WW2 , but when I saw the Bomb bay area size , my thoughts were , a lot of effort for little delivered . And the side door gunner positions , I have no idea how he managed his gun in that space , bumping against the other gunner , no wonder he did not have his parachute on during the fight , and when the plane was on fire going down , he received burns getting to his chute and getting out , and then was captured wounded , and off to the prison camp . My highest respect for all the young men who went to war in these machines and saved the world from madness . lots of room and no parachutes here

(http://457thbombgroup.org/walkthru/gunners.jpg)

#5

Pretty sure that bird was in these parts this year or possibly last…very cool

#6

it will be in Harrisburg the end of this month

#7

OK …it was was here before and I have seen it in flight while at work…:frowning:

#8

Dennis - That photo you show was a problem they addressed by staggering the gun windows in later versions. It was still a miracle to have served as crew on a B-17 and make it through the entire war to come home and tell about it. My sister-in-laws father was a ball turret gunner. He never wanted to talk about it. My dad served on the ground in Europe. He didn’t want to talk about it either except for a few funny stories he told over and over. Both of them, have gone on to join their brothers who didn’t return.

#9

I was privileged enough to fly in one back in the 80’s, Sentimental Journey. She flew in to Mpls/St Paul with a bad engine and stayed awhile for repairs. Gorgeous aircraft. I was also fortunate enough to have flown in the “backseat” of a P-51 Mustang and a JU52. In truth the most fun was spending an hour behind the stick of a fully restored L4 Cub! All worth every penny.

#10

In 1966 I was lucky enough to be part of a ground crew for a B-17 flying out of Pangborn Field that was a borate bomber fighting a fire near Lake Chelan. I worked for free, just to have the chance to hang around the airplane. Rules were different then. I was paid with a few flights as they made bombing runs. I rode in the nose.

Definitely an E-ticket ride.

#11
Dennis Paulson said:
I am always amazed at how much difference there is between real life war machines and the movies. My highest respect for all the young men who went to war in these machines and saved the world from madness .
There was a documentary on the History Channel a couple of weeks back about the US bombers in Europe during the second world war. The losses suffered by the bomber crews before the long range Mustang fighter aircraft were introduced were terrible.

But what really staggered me, was using the bombers as bait to draw the enemy fighter aircraft into the air so they could destroyed buy the Mustangs before D-day. One raid on Berlin had bombers strung out over 400 miles to encourage the enemy fighters into the air. The strategy worked as there were very few enemy aircraft left by June 1945, but there were a lot of bomber crews sacrificed to accomplish it.

#12

For your information -

RAF Bomber Command crews also suffered an extremely high casualty rate: 55,573 killed out of a total of 125,000 aircrew (a 44.4% death rate), a further 8,403 were wounded in action and 9,838 became prisoners of war. This covered all Bomber Command operations including tactical support for ground operations and mining of sea lanes.

A Bomber Command crew member had a worse chance of survival than an infantry officer in World War I. By comparison, the US Eighth Air Force, which flew daylight raids over Europe, had 350,000 aircrew during the war, and suffered 26,000 killed and 23,000 POWs. Of the RAF Bomber Command personnel killed during the war, 72% were British, 18% were Canadian, 7% were Australian and 3% were New Zealanders.

Taking an example of 100 airmen:

55 killed on operations or died as result of wounds
Three injured (in varying levels of severity) on operations or active service
12 taken prisoner of war (some injured)
Two shot down and evaded capture
27 survived a tour of operations

US 8th Army Air Force personnel mostlyade 25 missions and then were withdrawn to other duties - many RAF Bomber Command members had between fifty and eighty sorties behind them before they died. They went on R&R after 25, then came back…

tac

#13
Paul Norton said:
Dennis Paulson said:
I am always amazed at how much difference there is between real life war machines and the movies. My highest respect for all the young men who went to war in these machines and saved the world from madness .
There was a documentary on the History Channel a couple of weeks back about the US bombers in Europe during the second world war. The losses suffered by the bomber crews before the long range Mustang fighter aircraft were introduced were terrible.

But what really staggered me, was using the bombers as bait to draw the enemy fighter aircraft into the air so they could destroyed buy the Mustangs before D-day. One raid on Berlin had bombers strung out over 400 miles to encourage the enemy fighters into the air. The strategy worked as there were very few enemy aircraft left by June 1945, but there were a lot of bomber crews sacrificed to accomplish it.


Generals have always had to make terrible decisions.

Omar Bradley made the decision to bomb the Germans along the Allied lines in Normandy, after D-Day. Unfortunately, the wind at altitude was not as predicted. There was a horrible carnage on the Allied side.

Bull Halsey elected to leave a small force of a few escort carriers and destroyers called Taffey 3 to cover MacArthur’s landing on Leyte in the Philippines to chase the 4 remaining Japanese aircraft carriers. He got them, but Taffey 3 was destroyed. They held, at a terrible cost, but only because the Japanese admiral chickened out. Bull Halsey’s gamble paid off, ending the Japanese Naval threat.

I always thought I wanted to be a Flag Officer. Now I’m not so sure.

The memories of the American press are so short. Yeah, 30 guys in one helo is a tragic event, but compared to Scheinfurt (552 aircrew killed or captured in one mission - look it up) or Taffey 3, nearly as many as at Pearl Harbor, the recent event in Afghanistan pales in comparison. How did I get on this soap box. Sorry. Soap box off.

Those bombers trigger emotions in me that I don’t understand, and I wasn’t even there.

OK, Back to trains, now.

#14
Steve Featherkile said:
The memories of the American press are so short.
'Tain't only the U.S. press. Remember, to much of the current generation, the 1960s are prehistory, the '70s might as well be the 1870s -- and they don't teach history in schools. :(
#15

Paul, Tac, and Steve

Thank you all for the tid bits of facts and figures, which help to fill in my history knowledge.

Dave

#16

Nice shots. My area use to have the Sussex County Air Show. Only 10 min from my house. They had some nice planes. All type of old bombers ect… They stopped the show about 10 years ago. Wish it was still around.

#17

Dragging up this old post to add some fresh pictures of Aluminum Overcast taken today in Oxford, CT. Due to slow sales of seats (at $475 for 1/2 hour ride) they only ran one flight today. Two more go up tomorrow. The best shots from today…

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2/B17G_10-13_00.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2/B17G_10-13_01.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2/B17G_10-13_02.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2/B17G_10-13_03.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2/B17G_10-13_04.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2/B17G_10-13_05.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2/B17G_10-13_06.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post2/B17G_10-13_07.JPG)

It’s always a treat to hear the four 1200HP engines come to life and pull this big bird into the air.

#18

AWESOME!!! What was the name of the movie…old black and white flick…that featured the crew of a B17 that was on the flight coming into Pearl Harbor on Dec 17th and I think it ended with the Battle of Midway?

#19

A great thread to follow. Enjoyed reading it. Some of you might like this place:

http://www.sallyb.org.uk

As a youngster I am sure I saw these aircraft in our skies but my most vivid memories are a flight of six B36D’s flying over where I lived.

#20

Very cool, Jon.
Maybe they should have kept the price at $350 :wink:
Ralph