Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
BUT there’s an explanation for that, too. Being indoctrinated in the metric system from a very early age has “dreadful” consequences. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
Yes. We can tell by your beautiful modeling that you are seriously messed up
Folks, those who are not into any form of hobby modeling, often, it seems ask out of courtesy, what scale your models are. Freight trains are not as prolific in the UK as the USA so many people, unless they are frequent rail travelers, so have not seen freight trains in recent times. Often their memories are of the small two axle wagons of yesteryear and the only American trains are those seen in movies or tv movies. As far as pleasure/model railroads are concerned they often they think in terms of HO or ‘sit on’ stock as that is what they mostly see in stores or theme parks. Scale and other dimensions, if quoted, are often incomprehensible to well meaning enquirers so I usually quote the approximate dimensions of track gauge (either inches or mm.): the approximate size of freight cars and locos is achieved by hand gestures. This, it seems, generally gives them a better idea of what I have.
Well, Devon, once you get your Fn2 done, you can start working on F’n… um… 15. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)
Steve Featherkile said:
Well, Devon, once you get your Fn2 done, you can start working on F’n… um… 15. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)
It’s an F’n addiction/disease Steve.
Let’s not overlook the popularity of 16mm scale, both here in UK and elsewhere. Using this scale allows folks to replicate the many two-foot lines of UK - mostly in Wales - by using 0 gauge track [32mm, or two feet @16mm]. Sadly, this gauge of two foot equalling 32mm gives a linear scale of 1/19th, which hardly trips off the tongue, but has nevertheless satisfied many thousands of people since the late 1960s when it was instigated. My 16mm Association number is 9402, and that’s is many years old…figure out for yoursel how many model in that scale.
Let’s also note that many who model in that SCALE actually run the models on 45mm gauge track, like I do, simply because that allows me to run most EVERY other scale from Gauge 1 up to 7/8ths.
The anomalies here are that there also three-foot gauge lines in the British Isles, although not actually part of the UK. They are are situated on the Isle of Man and in the Republic of Ireland. The IoM Railway is well supported by Accucraft, whose live steam and electric models are well known, and the various Irish three-footers, which are not supported by anybody except a bunch of fanatics. AccuCraft has recently started into production of a Donegal railcar, and very beautiful it is, in crimson and cream, although it is in dire need of some suitable sound that does not currently exist.
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
To clarify, the NMRA does not recognize “G scale” as anything; either a single specific scale or a range of scales. They use the term “Large Scale” to describe all manner of trains running on 45mm gauge track. They do single out F scale (1:20.3, running on 70.6mm track) as its own designated scale, while breaking out Fn3 (1:20.3 running on 45mm track) as a subset of that. The Fn3 standards are identical to the Large Scale standards, as 1:20.3 running on 45mm track is also part of that class of scales.
There was at one time a proposal within the NMRA to assign a letter to each of the various scales we commonly call “large scale.” That may have been the origin of the use of “F” for 1:20.3 (Fine scale, if I recall one story of its origin). That proposal also enumerated G scale specifically as 1:22.5 (homage to its legacy as being called that by LGB’s marketing department), H scale for 1:24 (Half-inch), and A scale for 1:29 (American or Aristo, depending on which story you hear). That proposal (and variations thereof) were set aside when we set out to author new standards beginning in 2007. We took the approach there that since the track was the unifying factor in large scale modeling, the standards should be written from that perspective; individual scales did not need to be uniquely identified.
Regardless of what the NMRA does and doesn’t define, the term “G Scale” has taken on a meaning as a generic reference to all trains running on 45mm track, regardless of scale. Print and online sources gravitate towards the use of “Large Scale,” so to avoid confusion with historic references to “G” equating to a single specific scale, but in vernacular contexts, they’re identical concepts. Hobby shops have “G Scale” sections; train shows list their operating displays as “ranging from N to G” etc. If someone at a train show asks me what size the trains are, I’ll tell them that generically they’re referred to as “G Scale” or “Large Scale.” If I only use the term “Large Scale,” they often follow up with “but is it like O or HO or…” If I use “G Scale”–even referencing that it covers a range of specific numerical scales–they tend to grasp it better.
Later,
K
I just love the misspelling of the word gauge (Gage is correct for RR) when it comes to train topics. Later RJD
R.J. DeBerg said:
I just love the misspelling of the word gauge (Gage is correct for RR) when it comes to train topics. Later RJD
It all depends, it all depends …
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gauge
here’s a forum on which precisely that question was posed and the posts/answers are somewhat pointed (but don’t blame me, I’m just the intermediary (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif))
Hans,
Let’s get off the ‘metric is the only measurement system’ soap box. Measurement systems and scale/gauge discussions are two entirely different topics.
In your first post you comment on some German standard (NEM-Morop) that they are so internationally proud of, they can’t be bothered to put a copy of it up in English, a language that is taught in most European schools as a second language. And if you believe so stoutly that this standard is the ‘End All Standard’, please be so kind as to translate it so the rest of us can reference it and decide if it is so wonderful.
“Being indoctrinated in the metric system from a very early age has “dreadful” consequences.” Yes it surely has, it has closed your mind to the possibility that any other system of measurement can possibly have any amount of accuracy in it. The last I knew, 1.000 inches and 25.400mm were EXACTLY the same. If the rest of us are so far below you Hans, why do you stay? I for one am tired of the cheap shots and beratement because I/we don’t ‘think like you’. And please let’s make sure that the German/metric company that brought large scale to the states doesn’t get mentioned for their ‘rubber ruler’ accuracy either.
An example of your cheap shots. “From what I hear he smokes big cigars, but that wouldn’t have influenced the mould design, would it?” Please explain what a cigar has to do with one’s ability to produce a quality product?
Go ahead and drop some negative rep because I called you out, I am working on a ‘Despicable Me’ rating.
R.J. DeBerg said:
I just love the misspelling of the word gauge (Gage is correct for RR) when it comes to train topics. Later RJD
That is not the way it is spelled in the UK, RJ. A gage in the UK is a fruit! I try to spell most things US style, as this is a Stateside Forum, but for over 70 years I find habits die hard. OK, for Stateside to spell it their way, but had I spelled it your way at college I could have anticipated a caning. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
Both spellings are correct, RJ. Railroad manuals and manufacturer advertisements from the 1870s to current day use “gauge” to describe the distance between the rails. “Gage” is an accepted alternate spelling. For instance, CSX’s manual on track construction uses “gage” in reference to the distance between the rails as well as the thickness of metal pipe. The Union Pacific uses “gauge.” The Track Design Handbook for Light Rail Transit uses “gauge.” From a modeling perspective, “gauge” is by far the most common spelling, and is used by NMRA and G1MRA for their standards.
Later,
K
Gage as in Cadillac Gage Co. Inc, builders of armoured vehicles, or even _Gage_town.
But in all of MY US-produced books and literature, rail-GAUGE’ is the spelling. My signed copy of the Wood’s ‘Great Northern Railway’ can’t be wrong, surely?
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Bob “IA3R#7” Cope said:
Hans,
Let’s get off the ‘metric is the only measurement system’ soap box. Measurement systems and scale/gauge discussions are two entirely different topics.
I don’t believe that I stated that, but it is quite a possibility and in consideration of it being a decimal system it would be perfect for humans, after all most off us have two times ten digits
In your first post you comment on some German standard (NEM-Morop) that they are so internationally proud of, they can’t be bothered to put a copy of it up in English, a language that is taught in most European schools as a second language. And if you believe so stoutly that this standard is the ‘End All Standard’, please be so kind as to translate it so the rest of us can reference it and decide if it is so wonderful.
I believe I mention before why I didn’t volunteer to do the official translation of the NEM-MOROP standards. I declined after I found out from the contact person at MOROP that the previously translated standards weren’t British enough for the Brits. Can you imagine the consternation of having a native Swiss, with 46 years of Canadian experience, doing the translation would cause? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
“Being indoctrinated in the metric system from a very early age has “dreadful” consequences.” Yes it surely has, it has closed your mind to the possibility that any other system of measurement can possibly have any amount of accuracy in it. The last I knew, 1.000 inches and 25.400mm were EXACTLY the same. If the rest of us are so far below you Hans, why do you stay? I for one am tired of the cheap shots and beratement because I/we don’t ‘think like you’. And please let’s make sure that the German/metric company that brought large scale to the states doesn’t get mentioned for their ‘rubber ruler’ accuracy either.
Well if you permit, I have you know that I adapted rather well to the Imperial system these past 46 years and have very few problems switching back and forth between Metric and Imperial (not including fractions). I also have first hand experience regarding the relative precision of the two system, but I’ll spare you the anecdotes. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
An example of your cheap shots. “From what I hear he smokes big cigars, but that wouldn’t have influenced the mould design, would it?” Please explain what a cigar has to do with one’s ability to produce a quality product?
Knowing TOC aka Dave Goodson, reads here quite regularly, I’ll give him a call and the two of us can share one more very big laugh, we do that on quite a few occasions.
Go ahead and drop some negative rep because I called you out, I am working on a ‘Despicable Me’ rating.
Why should I? It’s no skin off my nose, but it makes for interesting reading. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
Bob “IA3R#7” Cope said:
Hans,
Let’s get off the ‘metric is the only measurement system’ soap box. Measurement systems and scale/gauge discussions are two entirely different topics.
In your first post you comment on some German standard (NEM-Morop) that they are so internationally proud of, they can’t be bothered to put a copy of it up in English, a language that is taught in most European schools as a second language. And if you believe so stoutly that this standard is the ‘End All Standard’, please be so kind as to translate it so the rest of us can reference it and decide if it is so wonderful.
“Being indoctrinated in the metric system from a very early age has “dreadful” consequences.” Yes it surely has, it has closed your mind to the possibility that any other system of measurement can possibly have any amount of accuracy in it. The last I knew, 1.000 inches and 25.400mm were EXACTLY the same. If the rest of us are so far below you Hans, why do you stay? I for one am tired of the cheap shots and beratement because I/we don’t ‘think like you’. And please let’s make sure that the German/metric company that brought large scale to the states doesn’t get mentioned for their ‘rubber ruler’ accuracy either.
An example of your cheap shots. “From what I hear he smokes big cigars, but that wouldn’t have influenced the mould design, would it?” Please explain what a cigar has to do with one’s ability to produce a quality product?
Go ahead and drop some negative rep because I called you out, I am working on a ‘Despicable Me’ rating.
Metric sux. Even my Jag is SAE. I refuse to use something that originated by the measurement of the King of France’s nose to the tip of his outstretched thumb, or whatever it was.
Maybe the occasional stogie helps one concentrate on getting the “gauge” correct, especially when measured with a “gage”.
Even MicroSlime’s spell check doesn’t like “gage”.
45mm, or 1.777" is what Llagas is. Try measuring the Aristo track sometime. KS knows all about that…live steamers set to the Maerklin #1 gauge fell between the rails.
Interesting avatar…I use that on several forums. Got it when I was COB on a badly cut up submarine we were refurbishing for museum display. Every time I found something else cut up…that picture was me. The guys in out Submarine Veteran’s group found it for me.
“Rubber-Ruler” accuracy is right. What was the saying we used during the Ventilator Wars? “How much more does it cost to do it right than to do it wrong?”
I refuse to use the nmra nomenclature. “1:20.3 narrow gauge” as nobody is going to refer to what I run as “F” scale.
Dave
The subject of this thread reminds me of some years ago when the UK government, of the time, foisted upon an unwilling population, the horrors of decimalization of currency and metrication in all manner of measurements.
As a result, in the first year or so after the changeover, folks garages and warehouses became cluttered up with carpets, lumber, fitted kitchens and a host of other items that were either too small or too big for the situation that they were intended. People bought longer lengths of things just to make sure they had enough for their project!
However, by and large people under 50 have no issues and only understand metric. It is us oldies that have to think twice. Fortunately they didn’t abolish miles for kilometres.
Bob, I don’t have a dog in this fight, but the last reference to Dave Goodson a.k.a. TOC a.k.a. the Old Curmudgeon a.k.a the guy smoking cigars was a reference to TOC reviewing the track quality/dimensions and also that he smokes cigars.
There is no cheap shot, and it was clearly humor. I cannot fathom how you took this as a cheap shot, except that you got yourself so worked up that you felt you needed to rebut every single statement from HJ.
I talk to TOC almost every evening, and I know he would not have taken any offense to that statement. I’m his friend, and likewise I did not feel that it was a “cheap shot”.
(I’m staying out of the rest of the discussion (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif))
Regards, Greg
To help the educational process along a bit …
1 millionth of a mouthwash = 1 microscope
2,000 pounds of Chinese soup = Won ton
Time between slipping on a peel and smacking the pavement = 1 bananosecond
16.5 feet in the Twilight Zone = 1 Rod Serling
Half of a large intestine = 1 semicolon
1,000,000 aches = 1 megahurtz
Basic unit of laryngitis = 1 hoarsepower
Shortest distance between two jokes = 1 straightline
453.6 graham crackers = 1 pound cake
1 million-million microphones = 1 megaphone
2 million bicycles = 2 megacycles
2000 mockingbirds = 2 kilomockingbirds
52 cards = 1 decacards
1 millionth of a fish = 1 microfiche
10 rations = 1 decoration
4 nickels = 2 paradigms
2.4 statute miles of intravenous surgical tubing at Yale University Hospital = 1 IV League
The dreaded scale question. I seem to have a lot of passers-by stop to see my railroad. It is in the front yard. Invariably, they all seem to want to ask me, “what scale is this”. Now, I’m not a rivet counter, or strictly adherent to scale. It’s my world, out of my own head. Mostly 1:29, some stuff is as big as 1:24, or as small as 1:32.
So when I answer their question about what scale are these trains, I see their eyes glaze over as I try and describe that, depending on the manufacturer, and whether you are doing narrow gauge or standard gauge it could be 1:20 to 1:32 running on the same 45mm track.
I think from now on I’ll just say G scale and leave it at that!
R.J. DeBerg said:
I just love the misspelling of the word gauge (Gage is correct for RR) when it comes to train topics. Later RJD
Can you back this up, R. J.?
From Merriam Webster Dictionary:
