This from the stray chicken.
John Le Forestier said:Kinda brings a tear to your eye, don't it?
This from the stray chicken.
Sorry…
Not to diss the timesaver but I can tell a more complicated and interesting switching puzzle that requires less turnouts and tracks…
It’s called “The Hole”. It only involves at minimum 3 turnouts, at a maximum 4, and no run around. But yet it takes railroad crews anywhere from 2-12hrs to switch… On the diagram it’s tracks 1601, 1602, 1604, 1610, 1617 1616. It only serves two industries: Cargil and Rainier Petroleum. I’ve never been a big fan of the timesaver because it looks so unrealistic. A real RR would never design such a set up… But for switching contests I guess it’s the “gold standard” to which I would disagree. It’s possible to make a complicated switching puzzle with less! Craig
Craig, I can’t disagree. Much of the “Timesaver” is based around the length of the rolling stock in comparison to the length of the siding or combination of the siding and area over a turnout or the area over two turnouts. It is a puzzle and there is always a key as to how to do a puzzle the most efficient way.
If anyone really wants to explore this side of the hobby, the way to start is to Google “Shunting” or “Shunting Puzzles”. This is very popular across the pond, where space is sometimes a very valuable commodity. Enjoy!
Also, in that search, I think you will find some prototypical examples of the “Timesaver” and other “Shunting Puzzles”. You’ve just got to do a little digging. 
I like the Inglenook. It only requires two switches, a loco & freightcars, and a few cards. It’s fast, 5 minutes and you can be done.
It’s a classic puzzle from England, probably the best known switching puzzle 'round the world. Canadians and Usonians are generally less familiar with the Inglenook. As we grew up in the hobby, most of us had very little exposure to what a great, beautiful, international, hobby this really is.
I take all the ingredients for a large scale Inglenook, in B’mann’s lightweight track and a boxful of freightcars to shows - for kids to do the puzzle.
All last summer I had a similar Inglenook set up in my breezeway. Lotsa fun…
Not only does the design ‘pass’ perfectly well as a small yard on a regular pike, but at shows you can add to or subtract from the complexity of the puzzle to suit the punter who’s trying it out.
Getting cars in order is a prototypical operation also, 'tho the Inglenook makes a bit of a puzzle out of it for the fun.
You can easily turn part of a larger pike into an Inglenook by designating its limits - placing a brick or caboose or dead chicken at the limits. When you and your pals have finished fooling around with your temporary Inglenook you can have yr entire railroad back again.
And if you used a chicken, you can barbecue it.
Ric Golding said:
Craig, I can't disagree. Much of the "Timesaver" is based around the length of the rolling stock in comparison to the length of the siding or combination of the siding and area over a turnout or the area over two turnouts. It is a puzzle and there is always a key as to how to do a puzzle the most efficient way.If anyone really wants to explore this side of the hobby, the way to start is to Google “Shunting” or “Shunting Puzzles”. This is very popular across the pond, where space is sometimes a very valuable commodity. Enjoy!
Also, in that search, I think you will find some prototypical examples of the “Timesaver” and other “Shunting Puzzles”. You’ve just got to do a little digging.
That’s exactly the problem I have with the timesaver! It’s not realistic in anyway, but it does provide lots of switching puzzle opportunities. All I was trying to point out was that a realistic switching puzzle can be created in more prototypical manner, and still be fun and entertaining to switch.
Craig
I designed a switching puzzle for my ““Industrial Park”” on my outside layout… The Industrial area is basically an “H”, but it has a double track on the “-” part of the H to be used as a runaround… I designed my to used 2 Geeps as power, and to be used with 50 ft cars… The “Industrial Park”" has an Industrial siding along with an Industrial mainline… these are not included in the “H” pattern of the industrial park… There are four industries located within the Industrial park… Each industry is at the end of a leg on the “H”… The feed from the Indutrails siding is also located at the “-” part of the H… It’s a little difficult to explian without pictures: In the below picture, the train is running on the Industrial main… The Industrial siding is to the immediate right of the train…
The track on the left running pararell to the train is one leg of the the Industrial siding… you cann see the lead into the industrial siding, and just a little further up, you can see the two leads to the crossover to the other leg of the H… The 2 leads of the crossover is actually the runaround for the Industrial park… the below picture is from the east end of the Industrial Park… The container cars at sitting at Dot’s Container Yard… On the left, the green building is Chandler Furniture… up by Arrons feet, the white building will be a Plastics plant, and to it’s left on the other leg will be Weber’s Meat Packing Plant… Chandlers furniture factory leg actually has a “Y” to that leg… furniture goes out of the factory into boxcars, and on the other leg of that “Y”, lumber gets delivered, and there will also be a spot for a woodchip car to pick up woodchips and sawdust… Eventually, the plastics plant with have an additional siding to accept plastic pellets in ““Airslide”” covered hoppers…
I have strive to make this puzzle somewhat realistic by serving a purpose… It does take some forethought to work out all the locations, considering arriving and departing freightcars…
"I have strived to make this puzzle somewhat realistic by serving a purpose… It does take some forethought to work out all the locations, considering arriving and departing freightcars… "
To translate, its a bitch to operate and you can spend a whole day there in the blazing hot sun. And then he brings you another train and says you should have gone and got that yourself. That would have been your break from the sun, but he was just being nice.
John Le Forestier said:
I like the Inglenook. It only requires two switches, a loco & freightcars, and a few cards. It's fast, 5 minutes and you can be done.It’s a classic puzzle from England, probably the best known switching puzzle 'round the world. Canadians and Usonians are generally less familiar with the Inglenook. As we grew up in the hobby, most of us had very little exposure to what a great, beautiful, international, hobby this really is.
I take all the ingredients for a large scale Inglenook, in B’mann’s lightweight track and a boxful of freightcars to shows - for kids to do the puzzle.
All last summer I had a similar Inglenook set up in my breezeway. Lotsa fun…
Not only does the design ‘pass’ perfectly well as a small yard on a regular pike, but at shows you can add to or subtract from the complexity of the puzzle to suit the punter who’s trying it out.
Getting cars in order is a prototypical operation also, 'tho the Inglenook makes a bit of a puzzle out of it for the fun.
You can easily turn part of a larger pike into an Inglenook by designating its limits - placing a brick or caboose or dead chicken at the limits. When you and your pals have finished fooling around with your temporary Inglenook you can have yr entire railroad back again.
And if you used a chicken, you can barbecue it.
John, we we set up the Timesaver, standalone (as we will at York), the Inglenook is what we use to feed cars into the Timesaver. The two puzzles together can keep you busy all weekend.
Nice Shot Dad!
(http://www.largescalecentral.com/chat/emoticons/evil.gif)
CVRR 3rd in tow edit for page 3
Ric Golding said:
Steve Featherkile said:
It’s “evil” only because some folks think it is how a yard should be designed, then they wonder why it is so hard to operate and soon loose interest. It is not “evil” if it is used as a game, like you use it.Steve, yes we use it standalone at York
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/090331%20004.jpg)
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/090331%20006.jpg)
and its part of our layout in the basement
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/011605%20040.jpg)
but , we also hook it up to the end of the Gateway Club’s modular layout.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/081005%20003.jpg)
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rgolding/081005%20004.jpg)
I’ll add one if I may…that young man did a damn good job running “The Timesaver” that year! You and Doug remember that? 
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/Shortybear/ECLSTS/ECLST2009010.jpg)
He’s been back many times. I’ve got 3 or 4 young people, yes including a young lady, that have been coming back for many years. This may be the 8th or 9th year we’ve had some form of the Timesaver and the Inglenook Puzzles at the Spring ECLSTS. Some of those kids have been there from the start. A few run it while I go check out the show. Very nice young people, I’ve only had one that really gave me trouble. He didn’t like my instructions and I didn’t like the way he handled my toys. He did about 3 switching moves and we separated. I hope he enjoyed the rest of the show. My boot was about to be planted in his backside. Only 1 in all these years.
Andy Clarke said:
I designed a switching puzzle for my ""Industrial Park"" on my outside layout... The Industrial area is basically an "H", but it has a double track on the "-" part of the H to be used as a runaround... I designed my to used 2 Geeps as power, and to be used with 50 ft cars... The "Industrial Park"" has an Industrial siding along with an Industrial mainline... these are not included in the "H" pattern of the industrial park... There are four industries located within the Industrial park... Each industry is at the end of a leg on the "H"... The feed from the Indutrails siding is also located at the "-" part of the H....I have strive to make this puzzle somewhat realistic by serving a purpose… It does take some forethought to work out all the locations, considering arriving and departing freightcars…
Care to draw this up?m it sounds devilishly fun
Ric Golding said:Hey Ric: I do similar stuff for the youngsters at RR shows around Toronto, only for the past 3 years though, so I'm not as experienced as you. Similar history, though. One kid I wanted to murder, abusing my gear while his parents looked on, grinning. I didn't really know what to do as I wasn't prepared for this. But it only happened once. I'm better prepared, psychically, for it now.
He's been back many times. I've got 3 or 4 young people, yes including a young lady, that have been coming back for many years. This may be the 8th or 9th year we've had some form of the Timesaver and the Inglenook Puzzles at the Spring ECLSTS. Some of those kids have been there from the start. A few run it while I go check out the show. Very nice young people, I've only had one that really gave me trouble. He didn't like my instructions and I didn't like the way he handled my toys. He did about 3 switching moves and we separated. I hope he enjoyed the rest of the show. My boot was about to be planted in his backside. Only 1 in all these years.
If it did happen again I’d ream out the whole fam damily and send them packing.
I have two grandchildren, now 11 and 9 yrs old. They have been playing with my trains since they were big enough to walk, and they’ve become totally respectful of the models and thoroughly reliable operators.
I believe I could leave my display almost entirely in their hands. I wouldn’t, but I am very confident in their ability to keep my gear from abuse, and politely explain the finer points to young newcomers. The eleven-year old boy is knowledgeable, witty and tough; the nine-year old girl is experienced at running trains, intelligent, and reasonable far beyond her years! Good combo…
But I know what you mean about wanting to whoop some hyperactive kid’s behind, or his poor parents’ 
Bob McCown said:
Andy Clarke said:
I designed a switching puzzle for my ““Industrial Park”” on my outside layout… The Industrial area is basically an “H”, but it has a double track on the “-” part of the H to be used as a runaround… I designed my to used 2 Geeps as power, and to be used with 50 ft cars… The “Industrial Park”" has an Industrial siding along with an Industrial mainline… these are not included in the “H” pattern of the industrial park… There are four industries located within the Industrial park… Each industry is at the end of a leg on the “H”… The feed from the Indutrails siding is also located at the “-” part of the H… I have strive to make this puzzle somewhat realistic by serving a purpose… It does take some forethought to work out all the locations, considering arriving and departing freightcars…Care to draw this up?m it sounds devilishly fun
Bob, below is the layout…
Thanks, Andy. I think I know what my next switching puzzle is going to be inspired by…
Bob McCown said:your most welcome... Just ask Ric how nice it is.... He shows up, heads into the ""Industrial Park"", and I don't see him for the rest of the day, unless someone yells ""Food"".... :)
Thanks, Andy. I think I know what my next switching puzzle is going to be inspired by...
The double crossover between the two legs of the “H” works really good as a run around. The “Industrial Mainline” can also be used for arrival and departure. The “gotcha” is the “Dot’s Imports Container Yard”, you need space there and space at “King Plastic Plant” to get things in and out of the whole industrial complex. If I did it for 8 or 9 hours a day for a couple of days of a weekend, I’d get better. The time between sessions, really slows my learning curve.
The key is to use your 2 SD38’s seperate to break the need for run-arounds. This what the Evansville Western does when switching Nashville, Illinois. They come into town double headed, with a unit facing each direction, but they leave town heading back with both units on the other end and the lead unit coming in is the trailing unit heading back out.
The whole area is a lot of track and you work quite a bit just maneuvering around it. Quite fun.
I like the way the local stone train does it here. Power on both ends! Helps them up the hills, handles the facing point with ease, and eliminates the need for a run-around to keep power on the front going home. A little tricky to do with R/C and a single TX.