What scale is Bachman spectrum On30?. For what I want in locos and rolling stock I am going to go with Bmann spectrum. Its tiny compared to O27. And HO is to small on the other end. So for designing scenery and buildings I need to know where I should be shooting. 1:48 seems about right.
Devon
Isn’t 1:48; “O” gauge? And I thought On30 was Narrow gauge in/for O gauge modelers.
Happy Holidays,
Michael
Since 0n30 is narrow gauge, it will be smaller that the usual O gauge stuff.
But the O gauge buildings work.
Michael Glavin said:
Isn’t 1:48; “O” gauge? And I thought On30 was Narrow gauge in/for O gauge modelers.
The use of words scale and gauge has become a bit of a tangled mess.
O gauge, which used to be said as Zero Gauge, is a track gauged to 1 and 1/4 inches, more or less 32mm.
The larger gauges were gauge 1 (which now often gets called G gauge), gauge 2, and gauge 3.
1:48 is one of the scales used for trains running on O gauge track, the other being 1:43.
(strictly speaking at 1:48 scale O gauge track represents 5ft gauge real track but the scale is so much handier to work with in US than 1/43 scale is)
“Gauge” should refer to the distance between the rails and only that.
“Scale” should refer to the proportional size of the models and only that.
Through the decades railroad modelers have gotten lazy and sloppy about using the words scale and gauge interchangeably.
A thing which was aided by most indoor modelers modeling standard gauge prototypes & allowing the use of one word either scale or gauge to transmit the entire concept.
If you for example said you modeled in HO scale, or HO gauge, most other modelers would understand you to be running 16.5 mm gauge track, literally “half-O” gauge, and modeling trains in the linear scale of 1/87.1 which represented standard gauge train sizes proportional to the model track’s gauge.
“On30” indicates the modeling is to one of the scales used with O gauge track, that this represents narrow gauge, at a scale gauge of 30 inches.
There is also “HOn30” which does likewise with HO scale models and N gauge track.
Now, got that clear as DupliColor Filler-Primer? (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
On30 is a great gauge for modeling narrow gauge, much less expensive then what items cost in HOn3 and On3, well it was, but like everything else the prices are creeping up because of demand for more quality models, etc. On30 became popular because of two things, narrow gauge modeling has become very popular and the use of both HO track and O gauge models avaibility at reasonable prices, plus you can build an On30 scale layout in the space HO would require. I would say that using On30 on a G scale layout would be like adding a park train ride to your layout, some have done just that.
trainman
Devon;
Forgive me for muddying the waters even more. I have a friend who models what he calls “Gn15” which is 1;24 or 1;22.5 running on HO gauge track. He usually kitbashes Bachmann On30 locomotives by enlarging cabs, domes, headlights, etc. to get the desired effect. He also scratch builds some locomotives and cars. This equipment would be used by mining and construction contractors.
Have fun, David Meashey
Michael Glavin said:
Devon
Isn’t 1:48; “O” gauge? And I thought On30 was Narrow gauge in/for O gauge modelers.
Happy Holidays,
Michael
I am finding the O scale is a lot like G scale. Not a real concern for scale fidelity. Much of the Lionel stuff is O27 which is huge compared to the Bachmann On30 stuff. The buildings are gigantic compared to the much smaller On30. To my eye it makes the On30 stuff look like HO.
Dave Meashey said:
Devon;
Forgive me for muddying the waters even more. I have a friend who models what he calls “Gn15” which is 1;24 or 1;22.5 running on HO gauge track. He usually kitbashes Bachmann On30 locomotives by enlarging cabs, domes, headlights, etc. to get the desired effect. He also scratch builds some locomotives and cars. This equipment would be used by mining and construction contractors.
Have fun, David Meashey
I have to clarify. I am not using On30 in conjunction with any G scale stuff. Its a stand alone layout. What is bringing this all up is that Steve had quite an extensive O collection. As I am sorting through it I am commandeering (and paying his widow for) all his On30 stuff which is very limited. But I was hoping things like bridges and buildings i would be able to use. No way. Even if its right, to me it doesn’t look right. I understand also that in the real world, older narrow gauge equipment was much smaller than mainline equipment. But I have some lionel people that will have to lay in the fetal position on the floor of the coach if they want to fit. And i have compared a lionel wooden stock car to a On30 stock car and its dang near half again bigger.
I am not really all that concerned with this. My indoor layout isn’t gonna be super fine scale rivet counting. Looking right is more important than being “right” to any particular scale. Its more of a curiosity to me.
Ken Brunt said:
Since 0n30 is narrow gauge, it will be smaller that the usual O gauge stuff.
But the O gauge buildings work.
That looks right
i would be able to use. No way. Even if its right, to me it doesn’t look right.
Are you sure the Lionel stuff you are looking at isn’t “Standard Gauge” ? Lionel tinplate buildings were all sorts of sizes/scales, as they were made to suit the big Standard Gauge railroad equipment and then repurposed to O gauge…
Kevin Strong started an indoor On30 railway, the Path Valley Railway, some years ago.
http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/26102/the-path-valley-railway/view/post_id/322741
No idea where his photos went. He posted a lot on Facebook so maybe FB stopped allowing them to show on a different site.
There’s a website called Clever Models that you can download and print out your own buildings on card stock. Then put them together.
The gray building behind the boxcars is one of them in 0 scale.
All those buildings in the background are 0 scale. The two on the left are from Clever Models.
Well I don’t know, lol. Could be just me. I have brain damage after all.
Devon Sinsley said:
Well I don’t know, lol. Could be just me. I have brain damage after all.
Is this an excuse, or just bragging (the rest of us claim it anyway)??? (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)
Bruce Chandler said:
Devon Sinsley said:
Well I don’t know, lol. Could be just me. I have brain damage after all.
Is this an excuse, or just bragging (the rest of us claim it anyway)??? (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)
It depends. Sometimes i can use it for sympathy, sometimes, to get me out of trouble with my wife, and anytime I have no idea whats going on.
It seems that some of you are falling into that scale vs gauge trap…
“On” refers to O scale narrow gauge, and adding the 30 indicates the gauge of the prototype railroad track is 30 inches.
O scale is 1:48 and if modelling standard gauge it would be a prototype 4 feet 8 and one half inches.
Bachman, and those using HO track as their “Supposed” 30 inch gauged track, are stretching your/their imagination slightly !!
Lionel, although they have produced some rather close to 1:48 scale equipment over the years, generally is famous for originating the name “Rubber Scale”, and their 027 stuff usually fits that “Scale” rather well.
As far as how some equipment looks compared with some other stuff, when both are supposedly built in the same “Scale”, depends on the type of equipment, and its era… the same as comparing Large Scale equipment in 1:20.3, which has its NG following, and its SG group.
…and remember when designing or building scenery, or buildings, you use the SCALE, not the gauge in determining the size.
I hope this may help, and doesn’t muddy the waters too much more !!
Fred Mills
I am not using gauge at all. In fact I rarely use anything related to an actual gauge of track. All my modeling is in, or close to, a scale: 1:20.3, 1:24, 1:29, now 1:48. I really could care less what the gauge of a particular track really scales at as long as its close to the scale I am working with.
G scale track is supposedly too small for 1/29 locomotives, but in my eye there is so small of a difference that it’s inconsequential to anyone’s eyes. Like one “great “ mind here says I model by eye. Rivet counting people will be shown the exit!
Fred Mills. said:
…
“On” refers to O scale narrow gauge, and adding the 30 indicates the gauge of the prototype railroad track is 30 inches.
O scale is 1:48 and if modelling standard gauge it would be a prototype 1 foot 4 and one half inches.
Bachman, and those using HO track as their “Supposed” 30 inch gauged track, are stretching your/their imagination slightly !!
that is the most correct, what i have read in this thread so far.
but to torture you a bit with some useless wisdom:
early model or toy trains were big. more or less as big, as modern USA-trains. they were models of “standard” gauge trains. on 45mm gauged track. the 1435mm real world standard gauge divided by 45mm made them a scale of 1:32. and they named 45mm: Gauge 1
with better tecnic came smaller trains.
first on a gauge of 32mm in the scale of 1:43 (!) (later in northamerica that was changed to 1:48.) because that was smaller than gauge “1”, they called it gauge zero written “0” spoken often as “Ou” (later the even smaller trains in 1:87 were called “half zero” “H0”, spoken: “eich-ou”)
but back to “Ou-scale”:
depending on the country of production, "O scale can be anything between 1:43 and 1:48. (1:43.5, british, exact double of H0) (1:45, european exact half of gauge 2 (64mm) in scale 1:22.5)
the known (to me) narrow gauge models of “O” are:
0m, meter (1000mm) gauge. in “O” scale the gauge is 22.5mm.
0e (On30) (750mm) in “O” scale the gauge is 16.5mm (the H0 track)
0i (“field” or industrial gauge) 520mm/20inch. in “O” scale the gauge is 12mm.
not completly confused yet?
study this chart:
Korm Kormsen said:
Fred Mills. said:
…
“On” refers to O scale narrow gauge, and adding the 30 indicates the gauge of the prototype railroad track is 30 inches.
O scale is 1:48 and if modelling standard gauge it would be a prototype 1 foot 4 and one half inches.
Bachman, and those using HO track as their “Supposed” 30 inch gauged track, are stretching your/their imagination slightly !!
that is the most correct, what i have read in this thread so far.
but to torture you a bit with some useless wisdom:
early model or toy trains were big. more or less as big, as modern USA-trains. they were models of “standard” gauge trains. on 45mm gauged track. the 1435mm real world standard gauge divided by 45mm made them a scale of 1:32. and they named 45mm: Gauge 1
with better tecnic came smaller trains.
first on a gauge of 32mm in the scale of 1:43 (!) (later in northamerica that was changed to 1:48.) because that was smaller than gauge “1”, they called it gauge zero written “0” spoken often as “Ou” (later the even smaller trains in 1:87 were called “half zero” “H0”, spoken: “eich-ou”)
but back to “Ou-scale”:
depending on the country of production, "O scale can be anything between 1:43 and 1:48. (1:43.5, british, exact double of H0) (1:45, european exact half of gauge 2 (64mm) in scale 1:22.5)
the known (to me) narrow gauge models of “O” are:
0m, meter (1000mm) gauge. in “O” scale the gauge is 22.5mm.
0e (On30) (750mm) in “O” scale the gauge is 16.5mm (the H0 track)
0i (“field” or industrial gauge) 520mm/20inch. in “O” scale the gauge is 12mm.
not completly confused yet?
study this chart:
Isn’t there On3 as well? For 3 foot narrow gauge (US). It’s consistent with On2.5, but not On30…I guess to be consistent with that, it would have to be On36, which I have never seen.
Are you sure the Lionel stuff you are looking at isn’t “Standard Gauge” ? Lionel tinplate buildings were all sorts of sizes/scales, as they were made to suit the big Standard Gauge railroad equipment and then repurposed to O gauge…
I happened to be looking at some other old scanned photos and found the attached. All pre-war Lionel (from a neighbor’s collection that I helped sell.) The ‘Hells Gate’ bridge and the electrical towers were quite valuable. There is a ‘power statin’ and a small bridge, plus the station. But you can tell they are huge.