Large Scale Central

Older Lionel Large Scale?

General Discussion
#1

Hi, our program has just acquired through donation another two locomotives and one car.

The first locomotive is a Lionel large-scale, Santa Fe 0-4-0. (Frontier Freight Train)

The second locomotive is an Aristocraft, Rodgers 2-4-2 (CB&Q) and third item is a Bachmann standard gondola from the 2008 Ontario, California, Big Train Show, with the lettering BINGO on the side. I know these items may not be top notch, cream of the crop equipment but I have a few questions that maybe somebody can help answer before I integrate them into our program.

First of all I would like to know how well these Lionel locomotives run and will they perform ok for kids to operate in our program and not have electrical pickup and gear problems? If there are issues, (which i have heard through the grapevine that there may be) is there anything I can do to improve performance on the track without completely rebuilding the locomotive? Be aware, that we operate strictly DC track power. No DCC or battery.

Second of all, on the Aristocraft 2-4–2, I would like to know how these locomotives run and pull and if they had any problems in the past with gears, electrical pickup, etc. Also, can the gears be greased on both of these locomotives and if so, how?

Third and final question is, can anyone give me a history about this Bachmann gondola that was specifically made for the Ontaro, California Big Train Show, 2008? Anyone know what the BINGO in large white letters on the side of this gondola means? I’m sure I’ll be asked that question many times when it’s operating at events.

Once again, due to smartphone problems with posting photos on this site, I am unable to post the photos directly of these items even though I have them. I keep getting error messages.

However, all of these items, (exception of the Bachman gandola??) are displayed online. I did manage to get the links to work from Dropbox again though. I just hope it works on your end?

Any helpful information about any of these items would be greatly appreciated, for informational and maintenance purposes.

Thanks! Ken

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jm270y90k8pwzqt/s-l400-23.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/prdsbmh3ax4oslv/s-l400-20.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwv68ab6w1ylfhb/s-l400-11.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/spuuwr5ubjp3x65/s-l400-16.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4o7l1zyyyehry7v/s-l400-17.jpg?dl=0

#2

I believe the lionel shown has external gears and is fine indoors, not good outside.

Freight cars by Bachmann are great. Only issue I ever had was brittle plastic on the hook and loop couplers and I replaced them with LGB or USA Trains couplers.

#3

Thanks Dan! Ken

#4

In general the Lionel stuff had physically large motors, but the drivetrains were not robust, had various other issues ( like loose motors in the Pacific) and most of the bearing surfaces were small and could wear quickly.

Also, you will see they are usually pretty close to 1:32 which will make them smaller than the other trains you have indicated you are working with.

Lastly, spare parts are no picnic.

I’d standardize on more rugged drivetrains, and the modern Aristo motor blocks that are ball bearing.

Greg

#5

Good information Greg! That’s exactly what I was looking for. We’ll take it easy on em!

Thanks! Ken

#6

Check to see if there is any play in the drivetrain that could negatively affect gear mesh. I’m not intimately familiar with that loco, but it’s worth a look.

Also, a check to see if the wheels are solid to the axle so you don’t get any quartering “lockups”

Regards, Greg

#7

I have the 0-4-0 Frontier Freight locomotive, along with its close kin, the 0-4-0 railscope locomotive. Also acquired an 0-6-0 from one of the Christmas sets.

The 0-4-0’s have surprisingly good pulling power - I’ve had them tow strings of 10-12 cars (on a level surface) without difficulty. They can manage the 3.8% grade to my upper level while pulling 3-4 cars, size and weight depending. More than that and wheels start slipping. The 0-6-0 has more pulling power despite its ridiculous appearance and smaller size.

Big drawback: these locomotives do not like dirty track at all. Wheels and track both require frequent cleaning. Plastic wheels make things worse in a hurry.

I don’t use these anymore having switched my other locomotives over to battery power. (the electrical issues wit track power were a major reason I got out of the hobby for a long while.) I have thought about getting that absurd 0-6-0 converted to battery, but that is a distant future project depending on time, money, and interest.

Apart from a few Lionel cars, all my rolling stock is Bachmann. I find it pretty durable; several of my cars have survived dives from the table with no damage whatsoever. Worth noting: Lionel and Bachmann knuckle couplers are almost fully compatible. (that is, they’ll mate 9 times in 10)

#8

I acquired 2 Lionel Atlantics years ago. Both needed a lot of work. The motor was good, but not mounted very well. (if memory serves me, a zip tie held it in place. Once tweaked though, they were good runners.

A scale of 1/32 (+/-), they looked good pulling 1/32 cars.

#9

The trick on the Atlantic is 3 zip tys, they just fit:

Compliments of George Schreyer, one of the pioneers.

Greg

#10

Greg, Thanks,

I will definitely check those things out when it arrives and let you know. Incidentally, what do you know about Aristocraft, Rodgers 2-4-2’s reliability and pulling capabilities ?

Another message below. Ken

Tim,

I can see the frustration of constant dirty wheels, so I guess we’ll be putting extra effort into keeping them clean, if the public enjoys running that locomotive. It’s a nice looking engine but we only have 5 cars for it anyway. Wondering if you have had any quartering or gear issues with yours and how long you’ve run it. We also have a Disney 0-6-0 and have run it for 8 years with proper maintenance and without incident but we only pull 2 or 3 LGB passenger (or Bachmann) cars also. We also use several Bachmann cars for other trains and like you say, they have fallen off without breakage, except one roof broke a corner off once, so we replaced the whole roof.

John, Greg,

Correct me if I’m wrong but i don’t think this is the same assembly as the Atlantic. Barry has built his 2-8-0 drive into 2 Lionel Atlantic’s, one of which we will be receiving for this program because he didn’t like the way the drives were built originally. He says they are simple to convert. As a 2-8-0, not only do they look really nice and are larger but they can pull 40 plus cars on flat track, similar to the pulling capabilities found in his other 2-8-0 consolidation and 4-6-0 products. I have pulled 67 Bachmann circus cars (everything combined) on 16 foot diameter flat track with minor wheel slippage. Not sure of the original drive capabilities? Thanks for the input. Ken

Greg, (Not to change the subject here but)

Forgot to ask, I have heard from Barry that one of the new Bachmann, 2-6-0 offset wheel locomotives, (possibly the one with with metal drive gears) that he is converting now, has a plastic gear in that drive that has issues and is failing. Now, I’m unsure if he is referring to the first batch that came out years back or he actually means the new ones that came out recently, (if there is even a difference) which the new batch would include the Grizzly Flats locomotive. He stated that, this is the first conversion he’s done on these and it is literally the hardest locomotive he’s ever worked on.

Since this is the first and only one he’s worked on, the way I understand it is, he is unsure if this one he is working on is the newer version or the older. (once again, if there is a difference) Just wondering what you might know, since our program runs 2 of the newer locomotives. I will also share whatever you can tell me with Barry, if that’s ok with you?

Thanks Greg! Ken

#11

The Frontier Freight locomotive tended to ‘grumble’ or ‘hesitate’ occasionally when starting. It ran better after a thorough cleaning and application of electrical contact cleaner spray. Then again, it was used. Apart from that, I don’t recollect any other issues. Yours should tow the five cars without difficulty, unless you send it up a grade in excess of 2%. The railscope locomotive, same everything except the camera and the paint job (blue instead of red) was ‘new-old stock’ and didn’t have those issues.

#12

On the Lionel , all maintenance was done, including, grease ports, lubrication, cleaning and a loose light bulb and one missing brass rod on the side which we replaced. It runs fantastic now and pulls all five cars as you mentioned. It ran flawlessly for 4 hours and since our track is clean most of the time anyway, it showed very little signs of dirt on the wheels after that time.

All Wheels were tight and gears were good. I can pretty much say the same thing about the Aristocraft Rodgers which needed a good cleaning, greasing and oiling and is now running like a champ also. It did need a lot of cosmetic attention but now it looks and operates like new. I think both locomotives will be a great addition to our program and even though the Lionel is a bit more picky, with good maintenance, clean wheels and track, it should run just fine. It seems to have a pretty good drive as far as I can tell. The only problem with the aristocraft, Rodgers (CB&Q) is that the Smoke Stack was in pretty bad shape but miraculously we found one brand new and it should be here in a few days.

Thanks Tim! Ken